Did women used to enjoy being catcalled?

I think that differernt women had different views on it.

But it also depended on the situation. One being whether it came off as risky/scary. There were always differernt factors, whether it was one guy or a bunch, if they seemed otherwise respectful, etc. So the same woman might feel differently depending on the situation. It's hard to describe what made some times feel better than others but it was a real thing.

No one is equating street harassment with rape. However it's on the same spectrum of behaviour, demonstrating how women are made to feel objectified, intimidated and humiliated in the public sphere.

It comes from seeing women and girls as 'less than', which affects women in every part of life culminating in domestic abuse, rape and homicide.

You must have heard of the broken window effect which is a sociological theory about small signs of neglect leading to worse behaviour. Cat calling is just a small part of misogyny, it all builds up and can lead to the normalisation of unacceptable behaviour.

Maybe poor etiquette to quote my own post, but I forgot to add and too late to edit my post.

Regarding not being believed. It's about what people don't say out loud or even subsconsciencely think - that they won't admit openly, sometimes not even to themselves. It's all very well insisting everyone views something as bad. Sometimes they can even feel compelled to say they agree. What they actually think but don't voice is another matter.

Of course, as I've said before, it's just my opinion (and obviously others have the right to disagree), but, it's an opinion based on real life experience of physical sexual assault, and of the way it's addressed.

Both the attitudes, especially those not said out loud, of the general public (women as much as men) and the reality of cuts to services like rape crisis centres and other VAWG services and the decreasing support available to victims.

I'm sorry if it was unclear, but I was not referring to the imposition of opinions on others. This is a forum, in which we are all offering our opinions as is the nature of AIBU.
What I was referring to was that you had suggested that you did not mind wolf whistles, etc, therefore you found it acceptable for you/your friends to wolf whistle other people on the basis that you don't mind it. It's fine that you don't mind a wolf whistle. What is not fine is wolf whistling random strangers on the basis that if you don't mind it, other people shouldn't either.
Nothing wrong with your opinion. Your opinion is not the imposition. If you are wolf-whistling random strangers, that is the imposition. On the random stranger who did not ask for your attention in this manner.

If I read it incorrectly, and you/your friends don't wolf-whistle strangers then I apologise. But that's how I read it and that's what I meant.

one thing that absolutely drives me mad & always has done is the "cheer up love, it might never happen" or the "smile" brigade

That's irritating, yes I agree (although I recognise some people genuinely mean well with it even if it's not really helpful).

I will say though it's as much women as men who do that. Unless it's only where I live? Definitely round here it's been both sexes.

I simply meant that if complaints are dominated by 'he called me this' or 'he put his hand on my shoulder' then when a man does far, FAR worse to a woman, there's a chance she won't be believed.

Yes. And exactly this HAS already happened and is getting worse. It's happened to me (physical serious sexual assault) and to my friend (raped) including from professional support services like the NHS (not all HCPs but it's definitely some, as both my friend and I discovered).

It's had a harmful and detrimental impact on victims. But then it's easier and cheaper to talk (or type) angry All Men Are Predators stuff than actually fund practical help and support for victims of sexual assault and VAWG. Declaring wolf whistling is Very Bad, whilst cutting funding to rape crisis centres and other VAWG services.

Over 60. No way was it flattering or welcoming. The men whistling would never remotely be anyone I was interested in approval from, and I deeply resented the implication that they had any right to express their approval (or otherwise). I find it incredibly sad that any woman/young woman would be flattered. It made me angry and contemptuous then, as it does now l, when I see middle aged men eying up or catcalling my teenage daughter.

I simply gave my view, which is what the OP asked for (albeit she wanted views from women older than me). I never claimed to answer for anyone else - other than my, similarly aged to me, friend.

I know her opinion because we've previously discussed it. As we've both been sexually assaulted in the past it's something we've talked with each other about. You're absolutely entitled to your view - and likewise so are we. And our personal view is it's harmful - and offensive - to victims of actual sexual assault to equate it to a brief passing (not groping etc) throwaway wolf whistle. You of course are free to disagree and I never said otherwise.

You talk about enforcing people into an exchange. Maybe that's how you see a brief passing wolf whistle and that's your right. I personally see it as something easily forgotten and ignored as can just walk on by (obviously persistent not taking no for an answer is not the same as a passing wolf whistle/"hello gorgeous", and is harassment but that's two different things). You obviously have the right to see it differently.

However regarding enforcing people. Your post highlights to me interesting questions about interpretation and intent, and about imposing opinions on others.

A good example perhaps of different interpretations of intent. Just as you feel a brief passing wolf whistle is as harmful as sexual assault, I feel your post was unsettling aggressive complete with the shouting (words in capital letters). Just goes to show how we all react differently to things - whether a wolf whistle, or a post on an online forum.

I don't believe in imposing my views on others. So please don't accuse me of doing so when I simply gave my views in my posts. I never suggested any other poster need agree with me. I don't believe in imposed opinions.

This is a bit difficult for me, we were told it was a compliment and we should be flattered but while it did sometimes come over as such, as often as not it felt a bit demeaning, or vaguely threatening. Or both.
I can remember my then flatmate's (married) boyfriend calling out 'hiya, sexy' to me in the street, which was definitely not nice. I should have told her but I bottled it. He was a real piece of work.
I worked in the City and I can also remember a bowler hatted gent stopping me and very politely telling me I had the best legs he'd seen in a long time and I can't say I was offended. This was in the mid 70s.
I am in the specified age range and it certainly doesn't happen any longer! But sometimes I do still get the once-over, which definitely feels weird and not right. (I am no oil painting, I can assure you. Some men must have low standards, it seems... )
But I think it's something young women are much less likely to put up with these days. More power to them.

Think you need to read the posts back...

If the women who like it don't get wolf-whistled, no harm is done.

If the women who don't like it get wolf-whistled, at best they are offended and at worst they feel threatened.

The option that causes the least harm is not to wolf-whistle.

My mam used to love it, she was very proud of her looks & (her words) figure, it was a total validation to her that she "still had it" at 40 or whatever

I never minded it tbh, it never felt threatening & sure it doesn't happen anymore because obviously times have changed but one thing that absolutely drives me mad & always has done is the "cheer up love, it might never happen" or the "smile" brigade😡

I'm not the one who got stroppy over this, darling.
Take your own advice.

I think men like this always do what they would like done to themselves.. they'd love women to shout compliments at them in the street, they'd love to be sent unexpected vagina pics, they'd love women to make intense eye contact with them as they walk by, they'd love their girlfriend to grope them etc
So they think we should be grateful

Calm down love. It's really not that deep.

I’m 42, in my experience some of it has been sarcastic! So, personally cat calling is a no from me.

You're probably right, Galadriell, but if women are validated by a random knobhead's assessment of how they look then that's sad.

The arrogance of said knobhead, to think for a single second, that their opinion should matter to any woman.

I think it's pretty simple. Men that shout at women are nobheads, and most of us probs do think it's ultimately pretty rude, but most people also like being told they look good.

Who was talking about making criminal complaints about being catcalled? It's not illegal, so who even does that?

It's not a competition as to who has it hardest. None of this was acceptable then and it isn't now, in spite of the women who keep shrugging it off as nothing or 'flattering', they're still doing it as evidenced by this thread.

Women in the age group that OP geared the question towards didn't have the assurance that this behaviour is horrendous, women now do have this. The previous generation didn't have the social media blight to contend with, that is very true, but women now have the surety of the work done by women of previous generations to put an end to cat-calling, page 3 and the like, sexual harassment in the workplace is now taken seriously. All of these things were long overdue.

I suppose the question is what can we do now to curtail and stamp out the malign influence of men using social media against women?

Nobody was talking about making passes. It's crystal clear this thread is specifically about street harassment, not flirting and making romantic advances in a social context.

Don't get pissy with me because you didn't articulate your thoughts well and wouldn't stick to the issue at hand.

I thought people who did it were losers, people who enjoyed it were losers. Hope that helps.

You disagree that shouting out crude remarks is not charming?

Never used to bother me on my 20’s, wasn’t flattered but not bothered by it but before that I remember walking to college and had to go past a building site, it made me really uncomfortable then.

I think things are worse for young women today. Catcalling and Page 3 were tame compared to what goes on nowadays.