If your husband worked these hours how much help would you expect?

SAHPs don't really get "paid" the market rate for their services though, do they?

If a SAHP is providing a "paid for" service, like a nanny or a housekeeper, then surely they'd get their board and lodging provided, and then the market rate on top of that, plus paid holidays and time off.

It's not really comparable.

Instead both parents should be working to create a decent life for their children, with quality family time and each parent also getting time to rest and pursue their own interests without the children.

Each also contributes different resources and a different skill-set - one parent (male or female) might have a highly remunerated skill and be willing to put long hours in at work but lack the patience to want to do childcare for hours on end each day. Another parent might really want to work, but in reality they don't have great earning potential so it makes financial sense to avoid nursery fees until the kids are school age or at least get some funded hours. Another parent might want to be at home with the kids all the time, but the family needs a second part-time income at least and so they have to work at least a few days a week.

These are all compromises that families have to make irl. But none of them involve "buying" the services of a lower-paid or non-working partner. And as a bare minimum, all adults in the household should clean up after themselves and set an example of respect and appreciation to the kids. And both adults should have at least a little bit of regular time to themselves or to pursue their own interests.

While working shifts probably not much basic household chores. Maybe a bit of time taking the baby so I could have a bath or pop to the shops without them in tow. On his days off I'd expect a bit of help with some of the bigger chores or planning for the week. Day to day stuff like taking out a bag of rubbish to the bin would be whoever found it full.

If I also worked outside the home I'd be expecting much more equal contribution to the home chores though. I'm a single parent so I've had to run a home, work full time and raise children by myself. It's much easier to keep a home running smoothly when one of you is able to be home.

My DH was away a lot with work so I had to get on with everything.
He was good with the DC and they adore him but never as hands on as yours sounds.
He then got a job where he was away during the week, home at weekends and did most of the gardening, DIY, helped clear up after meals etc.

Are you happy as a SAHM or would you like to be at work?
I found after the DC all started school I needed to get back to work part-time at least, but until then I was busy and happy as a SAHM.

A very unpopular idea I'm sure, but how many of these men would have had (as many) children if they were single? I don't think the "if he was single he couldn't have this life" comparisons necessarily hold up. As a child-free woman I've had lots of conversations about decisions to have/not have children with all kinds of people, and I think a lot of men have children/more children because their partners really want to and they are happy to or indifferent, rather than because of a burning desire of their own. Especially these kinds of guys who are devoted to their careers. Saying you're enabling someone to have a certain kind of life only makes sense if they would have sought that life out anyway.

Overall, there is very little understanding on the part of sahp what it takes to be the sole provider.

Why not. Most women leave education and get a job. It’s very easy to make a comparison between work and full responsibility for several children. Ime, I could look after DC, get them to education on time, do all the housework, help them with homework and comfort them when in tears.

DH’s idea of looking after them for a day was just that with McDonald’s for lunch and a takeaway for dinner. If they started crying in the evenings, he just said to me

”I don’t do emotional talk! You deal with them!

DH was in the top 1% of earners and while he was in the office, it wasn’t particularly stressful. I know because I worked there too - it’s where we met and we continued to see his partners and wives at business social events and weekends away for 20 years. I worked for a friend of his for 30 years, and they went into partnership together 12 years ago. I work for both of them now. I still think work is a doddle compared to several children under 5!

That’s true of course. But no one ‘makes’ women take care of their children either, they do it because they understand being a parent isn’t a part time position, you’re always a parent even when at work or the children are elsewhere. Someone who picks and chooses when they play parent isn’t a decent person at all.

So you don't wash or iron his clothes, but want him to do yours? Would you be happy if he just did the kids along with his?

Who would “make” him?

I’m sorry, the man who chose to have children is complaining they want his attention when he’s home? And his wife, partner in life also wants to talk to him and speak to him about their children when away? And he books a hotel room to hide away from his family??

That doesn’t read as a decent guy. It reads like a arsehole who wants a family but only engage with them in a very small window of his choosing. If I was the wife recognising this situation I’d be on the phone to a divorce lawyer. See how many hotels he can hide in when he’s made to have the children when not at work.

I’d expect you both to have the same amount of downtime!

.

Some of posters here display same understanding as my 5 y.o. niece - when asked what does your dad do, she invariably says 'oh, he sits in the big office all day'. He has a super stressful and super responsible job.

Our family friend is a conference interpreter, freelance. He lives out of a suitcase, v. successful, earns a fortune, US, EU, Africa, etc. His sah wife has a cleaner and is 'tired'. They have 2 children. She has no understanding of how exhausted he is and every time he walks into the house (his words) he gets ambushed by the children (school news, in-fighting, etc.) and by her (she has no adult to talk to, so dumps on him too the moment he arrives). He is a decent guy and does not take it up with her, so when he arrives back in the UK, he books one night in the airport hotel to relax, on his own, before facing the ambush. She also calls him when he is abroad and unsettles him with 'A is ill, he is off school today' or 'I think M broke her arm, should I take her to A&E or to GP'?

Overall, there is very little understanding on the part of sahp what it takes to be the sole provider.

I just looked up the wage for his job. With all the overtime you say he is doing, that means even more than stated.
You have the money to hire help, to pick up some of the overflow of jobs he can't do be ause he works so much.
Arrange things so his time off is enjoyable for both of you.
Life is far to short to not take advantage of the good things you can have.

Op I don’t mean to be rude but this list is crazy.

A more accurate version would be:

DH - wake up get ready (Let’s assume 30 mins)

DH - commute - (Assuming 45 mins as that is average)

DH - get through security sign in (15 mins)

DH work for 8-12 hours to include:

• fly the plane and communicate with air traffic control
• work out the best route using weather reports and air traffic control data
• create a flight plan and carry out pre-flight checks
• communicate with cabin crew and passengers
• follow procedures during take-off and landing to reduce noise pollution
• write reports, check data during the flight and adjust the route if necessary

DH - sign out (15 mins)

DH - commute home (45 mins approx)

DH - help with bed and bath where possible and dog walk

whereas you will have I am guessing at least an hour or two where the baby is napping. How long do the tasks take comparatively?

BTW of course he should put his empty dish in the dishwasher and I would have a conversation asking him to be more considerate in that respect but I suspect you get considerably more time off than he does.

You come across so nasty to other posters.

Id expect that he'd put his own bowl in the dishwasher/laundry in hamper etc and id expect him to watch baby while you take a shower. 50/50 on days off but those are long hours and seems like he wouldn't have lots of time outside of sleeping on a workday like that.

I'd expect him to empty and reload the dishwasher only

I'd say whatever hours he works those are the equivalent number of hours that your SAHM duties are in force (I.e. that's your 'job'). The rest of the time should be 50/50.

I think it’s that SAHP often talk how under appreciated their role is, to both family and society. Their role is huge to their family but nothing remarkable to society. There is one born every minute. As a FT mum working outside of the home, I outsourced childcare for 8/9 years to my mum. But everything else I did myself. And contributed to the GDP. I don’t think I’m better than a SAHP but for gods sake let’s stop thinking they serve some special role.

The op is not there in lieu of outsourcing the help

I would say that a SAHP absolutely is in lieu of paid help.

If goodness forbid the op would pass away*, do
you think she’d be as easily replaceable as a cleaner and childminder? Is that all her value is to this family dynamic?

No, not at all. We are all deeply valuable as members of our families. I am simply referring to the division of labour, which is what the post is about.

Did you seriously just relegate this man’s wife and mother of the children they both created to ‘paid help’? They both evidently came to a decision that his career would mean that the children had a parent to support them at home full time, you would never see a stay at home dad being equalised to a live in paid cleaner/childminder. The op is not there in lieu of outsourcing the help, it doesn’t mean the husband is no longer obligated to take on more than a few hours childcare and do no housework because she is doing it anyway when he’s at work. If goodness forbid the op would pass away, do
you think she’d be as easily replaceable as a cleaner and childminder? Is that all her value is to this family dynamic? Is his how much money he puts in the account each month?

Yea i bet her kids get fed at the childminders or they "get a hot meal in school" so they dont bother making a proper dinner when they're home. Kids outside playing on the road. House a tip. Kids dont get any help with homework. Of course low standards are easy.

Excuse me? No, we cook dinner every night, and our kids don't play on the road (we live in a city centre). House is pretty great looking, and we do homework with the kids. Why would you assume otherwise? Housework and being with the kids is nice time well spent, which we enjoy!

Because he's literally paying for the SAHP to do those things. Like I would pay for a cleaner or childcare to do those things if I were a single parent.

It’s a bit embarrassing that you can’t imagine that spending 24/7 with your kids might not be all arts and crafts and fun activities …

Well no, the weekend isn't all arts and crafts, it's the normal parenting snd housework that SAHP's do during the week, just on a Saturday and Sunday! It's lovely, relaxing, time off work.

"That reads like" - there's your strawman you've created and repeated again.