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Not sure what to do new office attendance policy

207 replies

sunflower122 · 05/09/2024 22:28

I took on a new role around two years ago. The company wanted me to be based in a particular office further north (about a three hour each way commute away.)

I said that was fine but I could only do that commute once a week. This was agreed in writing. I genuinely would not have taken the job if they had not agreed to this - my old job was fine!

The company have now announced a mandatory three day a week in the office policy.

I genuinely cannot do this with a six hour commute and it wasn't the basis on which I accepted the role.

Do I need to leave pretty much immediately?

OP posts:
Megifer · 06/09/2024 14:19

GranPepperpot · 06/09/2024 13:50

Sorry to disagree but some Contracts do give the employer the right to move people. I wasn't saying the employer has free rein. I was saying the Employment Contract may allow employers to move people but the employer usually has to take factors such as being a parent or a disabled person into account. This is why an individual employee often benefits from expert advice from a union official, experienced rep or Acas.

Yes, they are called mobility clauses and variation clauses. They allow the employer to make reasonable and what would be considered minor or non detrimental changes to terms and conditions without requiring consultation like work location (within reason), duties etc. Possibly changes to hours if this is already provided for in a specific clause e.g. the employee accepts the contract on the basis that their hours can be worked any 5 out of 7 etc. (Although c&p may come into play).

You suggested a variation clause may give the employer the unilateral right to override an already contractually agreed working arrangement of 1 day a week in the office. a variation clause does not provide for this, as this is not a minor, non detrimental change.

MillicentMama · 06/09/2024 14:09

There’s so much uninformed nonsense on this thread.

I’ve inherited a team (of employment lawyers actually 😂) where 4/9 of the individuals work from home the whole time. The other 5 do 3 days a week, choosing whichever days they individually want. No formal arrangement, but it’s been custom and practice for the past 3 years. It’s disjointed and hybrid meetings are clunky and slow. Work is reactive, there’s little interaction with these individuals beyond email, as there’s little cohesion or face to face contact.

With appropriate consultation and notice, I’ll be changing the working pattern to be office-based 3 days a week from 1st December. We have internal stakeholders who will do the same. Everyone will be in the office Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. Meetings on these days will be in person. The whole team will wfh Mondays and Fridays. I’d like to keep the team in place for the time being. Some may leave of their own accord, as the new arrangement may not suit. In 1 day, I’ve had 70 applications for a new role in the team. I can backfill departures.

Certainly take advice from Acas in your case. If they decide to push ahead with the change, it may be that you’re mostly wfh role is made redundant and a new role has more office presence.

Emptyandsad · 06/09/2024 13:58

I haven't read the full thread and I'm not a HR lawyer; however, I have been round several redundancy and restructuring scenarios.

The company is entitled to change policies if it feels the business requires it. Those who don't want to accept new terms and conditions and revised contracts will be presumably offered redundancy (with all the procedures that involves, such as consultation periods etc). If not then they will be able to sue for constructive dismissal.

GranPepperpot · 06/09/2024 13:50

Sorry to disagree but some Contracts do give the employer the right to move people. I wasn't saying the employer has free rein. I was saying the Employment Contract may allow employers to move people but the employer usually has to take factors such as being a parent or a disabled person into account. This is why an individual employee often benefits from expert advice from a union official, experienced rep or Acas.

MooseAndSquirrelLoveFlannel · 06/09/2024 13:47

sunflower122 · 06/09/2024 10:34

It's causing people so much stress and panic. Most people were doing two days and organised their lives on that basis

When is the 3 days a week from? Do you have time to find another job before this comes in to force?

Even a hybrid contract should say what the split is. So 4 days a week from home and one day a week in the office. You need to see what your contract states. But if he doesn't specify the number of days, anything less than 5 is hybrid.

Megifer · 06/09/2024 13:38

GranPepperpot · 06/09/2024 13:28

The Contract may override an email saying one day a week into office is fine. Many Contracts have a provision to vary workplace/travelling time. But there may be a policy saying varying a workplace beyond say 20 miles and/or an hour's extra travelling time is not supported. Or if the OP is a carer or with children to collect from school or is disabled, those are material facts. But that's why the OP needs advice from an experienced union official or rep or Acas, rather than people with great intentions but no knowledge of the Contract of Employment, I politely suggest.

Variation or mobility clauses do not give free reign for an employer to make significant or detrimental changes without consultation.

MinervaMcGonagallsCat · 06/09/2024 13:33

taxguru · 06/09/2024 10:39

Very bad advice.

No need to go down that route at all.

OP has the one day per week as part of their employment contract by virtue of it being an expressly agreed term, evidenced by the email confirmation.

All they need to do is "remind" HR of their contractual agreement.

Going down the flexible working request route is a distraction and unnecessary at this stage and could make things worse as the employer is under no obligation to grant it.

This reply is spot on.

Especially this: All they need to do is "remind" HR of their contractual agreement.

@sunflower122 this is what you need to do. If you are still unsure or get push back then you call ACAS for free advise on what to do next.

I'd also recommend reposting in the Work section where you will get knowledgeable advice. Here in AIBU you are just going to get loads opinions, many of which, whilst well meaning, don't know what they are talking about.

Halfemptyhalfling · 06/09/2024 13:30

I would be tempted to carry on as you are and then if they pull up out up say you thought it didn't apply as remote working was part of your agreement in taking the job. If you stay under the radar you could get away with it longer.

I would start looking at other jobs just in case.

GranPepperpot · 06/09/2024 13:28

The Contract may override an email saying one day a week into office is fine. Many Contracts have a provision to vary workplace/travelling time. But there may be a policy saying varying a workplace beyond say 20 miles and/or an hour's extra travelling time is not supported. Or if the OP is a carer or with children to collect from school or is disabled, those are material facts. But that's why the OP needs advice from an experienced union official or rep or Acas, rather than people with great intentions but no knowledge of the Contract of Employment, I politely suggest.

G5000 · 06/09/2024 13:12

There was a material change in the circumstances - this new decision.

OP doesn't mention that there has been any change of circumstances claimed as the reason for change. Company's own decision just because they feel like it is not change of circumstances.

CantHoldMeDown · 06/09/2024 13:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 06/09/2024 13:09

NachoChip · 06/09/2024 00:50

I'd start with the assumption that you will be an exception. A six hour commute three days a week is unreasonable and they know they'll lose you if they enforce it, and you have an agreement in writing. They're probably coming down hard on the policy because otherwise people will flout it. I run a business and get it....they need to set out their stall. They will make an exception if you have a particular skillset they need and is hard to replace. If you fall into that category you're probably ok

Arguable case for constructive dismissal if they aren't careful too.

Megifer · 06/09/2024 13:01

"People who had flexible working contracts were given 12 weeks notice which is apparently all that is required."

Shame as the employer cannot just serve notice of this sort of change.

SensorySensai · 06/09/2024 13:00

If you've been doing something for more than 2 years it effectively creates a contract in itself.

GranPepperpot · 06/09/2024 12:59

Are you in a union? If so, contact them. If you aren't, go the Acas website and contact them for advice. Check also if your company has a grievance policy and put in a grievance. Sorry to say HR are paid by the company and aren't always helpful to individual employees. That would be my advice as a former union rep

G5000 · 06/09/2024 12:59

Loads of people have working arrangements agreed at interviews which aren't going to be upheld

It isn't that simple to unilaterally change agreements.

HotCrossBunplease · 06/09/2024 12:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Why on earth should OP have to incur the cost of a hotel and time away from her family every week when she was recruited by them in the full knowledge that she lived 3 hours away?

HollyBollyBooBoo · 06/09/2024 12:56

We've just been through this although mandated EVERY day in the office. People who had flexible working contracts were given 12 weeks notice which is apparently all that is required. Naturally they just left leaving even more of an issue with many vacancies and pressure on the people that remain.

MarkWithaC · 06/09/2024 12:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

So sarcastic for such little reason Grin

Hotel and food costs might mean it's not worth the OP's while. Plus disruption to family life. Plus this is not the job she signed up for.

MrsPinkCock · 06/09/2024 12:53

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 06/09/2024 12:38

Also constructive dismissal is extremely difficult to prove so it would not be advisable to just quit and take them to tribunal. You'd need a lot of support to evidence that this was a case of constructive dismissal including exhausting the grievance processes, and being denied things like reasonable adjustments or bullying and harassment which would be targeted and not a blanket policy change across the entire business.

Reasonable adjustments apply to disability cases. There is no need to prove bullying or harassment for that type of claim!

Constructive dismissal means demonstrating a) a fundamental breach of contract by the employer, b) a resignation directly in response to that breach and c) doing so without delay. It’s actually legally fairly simple. The reason so many of those cases fail is that people don’t understand the legal test and think they can resign just because they’re a bit pissed off.

If the change is enforced though a grievance would be sensible.

SensorySensai · 06/09/2024 12:52

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

I don't think I know anybody with a family life that could randomly start being away 1 or 2 nights a week. Let alone the cost.

And on top of that - it's not what was agreed when she took the job.

Pogpog21 · 06/09/2024 12:45

MissTrip82 · 06/09/2024 00:42

I wouldn’t put in a flexible working request, I’d take the position you already have an agreement on your working arrangements.

This. You’ve agreed something and that’s that.

watchuswreckthemic · 06/09/2024 12:44

Hmmm my workplace have also announced this so wonder if we work at the same place! Loads of people have working arrangements agreed at interviews which aren't going to be upheld so some people are leaving, others are putting in flexible working arrangements and some still thinking.
I can't understand the reasons behind it but I've not been there long.

JamMonster · 06/09/2024 12:43

Ridiculous that people are saying to get hotels - as soon as you set that expectation you’d be stuck with it and while it can be £50 per night, dynamic pricing means it can suddenly also be £150+. Plus dinner and breakfast. Not to mention the disruption to your home life! I looked at doing this but after nursery fees I wasn’t going to break even on the extra office day.

I’d raise it informally at first and then start looking for closer alternatives if it was clear they were going to apply it to you too. I think they can change your contract to enforce it, but they’d have to give you contractual notice - have a look in your contract!

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 06/09/2024 12:38

Also constructive dismissal is extremely difficult to prove so it would not be advisable to just quit and take them to tribunal. You'd need a lot of support to evidence that this was a case of constructive dismissal including exhausting the grievance processes, and being denied things like reasonable adjustments or bullying and harassment which would be targeted and not a blanket policy change across the entire business.

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