To be concerned about nursery care

Yep and OP should have asked them to close the door.

Along with the comments about him crying for attention, I'd guess he's attached to his key person (normal and healthy by the way and literally what the key person system was supposed to promote) but it's annoying for the staff that he cries when she leaves so they are leaving him deliberately to cry it out and teach him crying doesn't get comfort.

This is pretty common in nurseries that don't really understand or value attachment - they do key people because they have to but actually it's much easier logistically if babies don't develop particular bonds and accept care from anyone.

I'd look to move him - they immediately lied, the manager can haul them over the coals yes but that's not going to increase goodwill and that's what the problem is, a lack of goodwill towards your son, leaving him crying, and then eye rolls etc.

I've had two children in nursery from the end of mat leave to school age and always go with your gut.

This- it’s tailgating and most nurseries have signs up asking people to please not do this.

Go with your gut. Some of it can just be bad timing, but it sounds like more than that. It seems like no one takes over if designated carer has to do something.

I have watched the carers at my nursery comfort all the children. All the cuddles. But still sometimes I walk in and one is crying on the floor. Because they're not octopuses. Ratio is 1:3, there were 5 kids. One staff member was changing a nappy, the other pushing 2 other kids in a pram to sleep. Mine and another child were on the floor, mine was crying a bit because he wanted to be picked up. But the person pushing the prams was looking at and singing to him while he was on the floor (and I could see they were through the door before they even saw me), and I know that when the nappy was changed the other staff member would have gone and picked him up.

In general sometimes stuff needs doing and kids will cry when you do it, which is same as at home. My child is also very attached to a specific member of staff and cries when they leave their line of sight.

I also know for a fact mine does cry when he sees me, because I've seen him through the door not crying and smiling and waving around, then see me when I walk in and start bawling. You know in your case that's not what's happening.

I guess what I'm saying is, not one of the things necessarily screams it's awful, but there's clearly enough totalling up that its not quite right. And mums instincts are usually right.

Definitely talk to the manager. Whether you decide to take your child out makes no difference this needs to be flagged up so management know. There are lots of concerns in what you've written, especially gaining access without a staff member letting you enter and a baby left crying. Some babies know its home time and cry when others start going and some are resistant to being comforted but we always explain this and always stick close to the child.

Trust your instincts and make a fuss. We would never treat a child differently because a parent made a fuss about something so don't be scared to approach senior staff.

Is this a Mama Bears nursery?

I'd be taking him out and looking for a childminder.

I would move him.

Follow your gut. Move him. My child is a different child in his new nursery and I love it there, I never feel uneasy or suspicious anymore.
The previous nursery had plenty wrong with it, little things that built up and painted a not very nice picture.

Would you?

Because if my child was abducted from a nursery by someone following another parent through an unsupervised door I'd definitely be blaming the nursery.

To get into my sons nursery it’s buzzer entry at the front door, a member of staff then greets you at the reception area, they radio along to the room that “mum is here to collect X” and then when I get to the room the door is unlocked and a member of staff hands me my child.
I wouldn’t be happy with any nursery that I could just walk into!

If alarm bells are already ringing for you then you’ll find it hard to trust what they say. I’d be looking for a new nursery personally.

Exactly

You are not being unreasonable nor oversensitive, and please don't let anyone convince you otherwise. You are the mother, and those "pangs" you describe, as well as the feeling of something being off, is your mother insinct. You don't need to be alarmed or paranoid: but you do need to listen to it. Nobody cares more for the wellbeing of your child than you: he needs you to advocate for him and be his voice.
You're a good mother, I hope you find the best solution 💐

Edited to add: when my daughter started nursery, I made very clear that I wanted a gentle approach and that they could call me at any time and I would come and collect her whenever she was distressed. One day I arrived a little unexpectedly: my daughter was crying, very distressed, and when they saw me they started with their bull*t: that she was perfectly fine, that kids cry to manipulate their parents, that "she'll get used to it", that she only cried when she saw me... it was straight out of the gaslighting manual. I looked directly at her and smiled, took my daughter and went home. I told her I was sorry and that she wouldn't come back again to that place. I didn't even come back to collect her things, I sent my husband the next day 🤣 I felt sooo good about this! We ended up finding a lovely childminder who still today is a friend of our family. There are good people out there who genuinely care for children 🙏

Is it possible to look at another setting for him? A smaller one perhaps? Or a childminder who only has a few kids if that's an option for you?

Your instincts are saying NO quite loudly here. Even saying something won't change the mentality of these nursery workers. Some of them are just very low paid, immature, don't feel passion for the job.

I wish in hindsight I'd been able to find a known childminder who I knew who also had a small number of kids. It's so difficult

Take him out of this setting! I’m shocked!

It's amazing and awful how many nursery staff I've heard about that tell a parent their child has just started crying because they have seen them.

To be fair I would blame the parent that let OP in rather than the nursery.

Agree with pp that being able to walk in is pretty bad. A child crying alone is also bad.

The staff laughing could have been something unrelated - could they even hear your conversation?

But anyway you have to go on instinct with pre verbal children. If you aren't happy then look for another setting.

I experienced something a bit similar with one nursery when my child aged 15 months had a settling in session. She was very upset (lockdown baby so not used to anyone except me and dad) and I could hear her screaming. I was discouraged from staying so went out for a brief walk round the block. Got back early and looked through the window to see her crawling round in her own crying her heart out. Staff were not busy . The nursery owner told me she'd been fine while I was out which was obviously a total lie. I never went back and she went to another nursery where firstly they cuddle and comfort and distract upset children and secondly they are honest. She actually settled very fast there and didn't cry much at all. The former nursery are also lax with security strangely enough. Wondering if it's the same one now!

Both times you have seen this his designated carer wasn't there. Is it possible he has attachment issues to her and he cries when she leaves the room? It's worth having that conversation with them to see if they are trying to desensitise him from that, even if they aren't doing it very well.

Bring able to just walk in when someone else walks out is a good enough reason to move nursery though.

I wouldn't be sending him back. I appreciate that might be really tricky with work, but if you don't collect often and have still managed to witness this twice then sadly yes, his needs are being ignored all the time. I'd also contact Ofsted over the safeguarding issue of being able to just walk in!

Speak to the manager, if they are worth their salt they’ll appreciate the insight and endeavour to shake things up. Whether or not you still move him is a decision you’ll have to weigh up but call a face to face meeting regardless. You witnessed it, do not let them tell you anything different was happening. He was crying and they didn’t bother to comfort him.

Sorry this happened OP. I agree with PP that once the trust is gone it’s hard to get back. I moved my baby after a couple of months because there were just a few things id seen/heard that kept niggling at me, and I knew I’d always be waiting for them to slip up if that makes sense? It took a while for him to settle into a new nursery but I have no regrets - I only wish I’d trusted my gut sooner but as you say it’s so hard when it’s your first experience of childcare x