School not letting my child from the school

And as I keep saying, there are then grey areas after that, including the age group under discussion, where a parent’s view may clash with the school’s.

Once we’re in those grey areas, the school cannot just shrug and say it’s not their problem once the unaccompanied child has wandered out onto the pavement. They have to follow their own processes. So far the OP has not said anything to indicate that this situation has occurred on more than that one day, unless I’ve misread. So the school looked after the child in ASC that day and the parent emailed to complain, and called the police, for reasons.

I know. I stepped away and then couldn’t believe it when I saw it was still going around in the same circle a day and a half later. It’s nuts.

And you were stepping away 🤣🤣🤣

This thread does feel like the laymen are trying to teach the experts their job 🤦

It's not the same thing because no parent would give permission for a toddler to leave the premises and if they did the school should phone social services and follow their advice as that parent is negligent. If a 9 year old leaves with parental permission then anything that happened would be the parents responsibility if anyones as it is normal for 9 year olds to walk home by themselves.

This! We have no idea what the family situation is or what the school have done as regards safeguarding so I’m out! People who work in schools have extensive training on safeguarding.

Given the fact that the school has not correctly followed procedure with regard to safeguarding, and that they have not contacted SS as threatened (despite @Kutika saying she would welcome their involvement), I think it is reasonable to infer that the HT cannot evidence a specific issue in this specific instance. They're probably just pissed off that OP is unwilling to bow to the school's policy.

@Sadlynotright it's not up to the school to decide when a child is old enough to walk home, it's up to the parents! If a school deems there to be a safeguarding risk involved in that decision, they have to contact the relevant authorities; making the decision themselves is a massive over-step. People who work/worked in schools really ought to know this.

This is a ludicrous line of argument and you could apply it equally to the theoretical toddler too. Once they leave the premises it’s all good, right?

The school has responsibility for the children on its premises including whether they feel it is safe to let them leave. Indeed that’s pretty high up the list of responsibilities.

Yes the school has a safeguarding duty.

That duty is to report concerns. They haven't done that.

If the school has additional concerns they definitely need to report them. They haven't.

SS may have concerns that the school don't know about. That's the other reason the school needs to report. That is the basis of safeguarding. But they haven't.

Why have they ignored the principles of safeguarding?

They are not on the school premises once they are walking home though so the school will not be responsible for anything that happens. HTH.

I’ve reported to social services when a child of 13 wasn’t being collected from school and parents wanted her to make her own way home, because we had evidence that her learning needs meant she was putting herself in danger with strangers. Social services agreed with us. That’s what good safeguarding is. If they think the OP’s judgement call is putting her DD in danger, then it is pretty shocking that haven’t already reported to social services that the child is arriving to school unaccompanied.

That's absolutely right @Takoneko. And as I posted previously once SS are involved, they will ask what specific safeguarding concerns the school has with regard to this particular child and this particular journey. An HT muttering in vague general terms about 'safeguarding issues' is going to be asked what precisely they are in this instance (at least, in my professional experience that is what happens).

Effectively in this instance there is a stand-off. The two parties disagree. But the default position is to defer to what the parents want, not what the school wants, and while I agree with @Walkden that SS are unlikely to actually 'do' anything, they will advise the school that it should abide by the parents' wishes, which have been expressed clearly and in writing.

OP you should advise your DC that she has your permission to leave school at the end of the school day and walk home. The school can't actually prevent this happening, unless they are going to take physical action. They would be extremely ill-advised to do so.

This! I have worked in schools too. One of the parents just needs to collect their child from school until the school deems them old enough to walk home themselves. This child has only just started in year 5 and is 9. The school has a safeguarding duty. The school may also be aware of other details of family circumstances.

Uh huh, I know. The child hadn’t left the school grounds. HTH.

It isn't even at "x age" is it, that might be more reasonable. Some children in year 5 will already by 10, I think the OP said her child will be 10 next month, in April some children in year 5 will be months off their 10th birthday. Obviously it will vary by school and by year but saying some year 5s aren't ready to walk home at 10 and some are at 9 year 8 months makes no sense unless they are actually accessing each child not just a blanket "they will be ready in April."

"Not one person has managed to come up with any legal basis for the school to detain in this scenario."

There plenty of reasons. The obvious one is their legal duty of care towards the child. Most posters just disagree with the school's assesment based on the schools age.

Probably why the police disagreed with the OP /your legal assessment of the situation

Your first sentence says ‘they haven’t broken any laws’.

Well they have. Pretty simple that really.

Or dependent on the journey.

My 12 year old’s secondary would be perfectly reasonable calling social services if she wasn’t collected from school.

This exactly sums up the school’s options. It’s incredibly frustrating that this thread is still going round and round in circles with people who don’t understand schools’ safeguarding powers or duties arguing the opposite.

The school are acting unlawfully. Not one person has managed to come up with any legal basis for the school to detain in this scenario. Lots of us have pointed to statutory guidance that makes it clear this is not lawful and still two thirds of people are saying the OP is in the wrong.

It’s also shit safeguarding. Having a policy that says “children can walk home at X age” is a problem because it suggests that there is a right time for everyone, rather than encouraging parents and staff to assess each child’s individual needs. That goes against NSPCC guidance. I’ve reported to social services when a child of 13 wasn’t being collected from school and parents wanted her to make her own way home, because we had evidence that her learning needs meant she was putting herself in danger with strangers. Social services agreed with us. That’s what good safeguarding is. If they think the OP’s judgement call is putting her DD in danger, then it is pretty shocking that haven’t already reported to social services that the child is arriving to school unaccompanied.

They can make a judgement on whether or not to call SS, that's it. If they don't call SS then they should not be detaining a child when their parent has given permission for them to leave and its outside school hours. They definitely should not be charging the parents for detaining the child.

Schools aren't responsible for students once they have left the school grounds out of school hours.

But only if they actually do call SS. They can't just detain the child and say they will call in the future, they have to call once they decide to detain the child.

My point was that while some things are obvious, above nursery age there will be grey areas. On your second point, the school cannot be held responsible for the kids on their way to school but they are responsible for them when they are on site including st home time. Not that complicated.

Yep DS would be closer in age.

DS has gone to cubs and beavers early too because he's a leaders child so he's used to being with the year above in a lot of situations. They ARE his peers as well as his own year group.

It makes for a difficult position in a lot of ways.

There a kid with SEN needs who is a June baby. He will not be safe to walk home by April. He's a lovely kid who DS gets on well with. His route home is easy and safe. But no he shouldn't be walking home alone.

DS would have been fine to walk home at the start of yr4.

Thankfully DSs school have a policy which recognises these issues.

Then I think it was your post that was bizarre.

You were replying to my post in which I had already said that the school could not incur ASC charges on OP’s behalf. You quoted the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act which deals with criminal offences, not civil responsibility for payment.

My son's best friend was a 31st August baby so yes if he was year 5 and your son was year 6 they would possibly closer in age to each other than to any child in their own year and certainly closer in age than to most of the children in their own year.

DS is a September baby. There are kids in yr6 much closer in age and maturity to him than in yr5.

I really don't get these arbitrary set dates about when it is ok to walk home. Either they are mature and safe enough or they are not.

If they think there is a problem then school should report and/or someone should have a serious conversation with the parents about why they have concerns - either social services or the school - whichever is more appropriate for the situation. If they don't then they should support the parents and the child in building independence.

The end.