"Stop being a Karen"

But why isn’t there a name for racist white men?

The targeted women in the first instances were not of various races. They were white. And as a black woman I am much more afraid of the behaviour associated with the original ‘Karen’ than I am of people using the slur.

I agree that it is a lazy term (and offensive to real life women named Karen). But I think it’s a category of people that need a word to describe them in order to challenge that behaviour.

The majority of POC (hate the phrase but 🤷🏽‍♀️) instantly resonated with the calling out of that quiet, passive aggressive, playing victim, entitled type of behaviour.

The name Karen is wrong but it needs a name.

I don't think it is mainly 40s and 50s. I think it effectively is for women from around mid 40s until they end up in the 'awww isn't she an old dear' bucket that means people just get confused if she stands up for herself. It basically starts from when a women moves into the 'middle aged, no longer relevant' bucket.

I think people look a lot younger than they used to and you don't tend to hit the 'old dear' bucket until late 70s/80s now and a lot of the people being accused of being Karens are acutally 60s/70s. It's just that a lot of us have a picture in our head of what someone in their 60s/70s looks like based on what our grandmothers looked like at the same age.

I don’t think women standing up for themselves are silenced. I think those women think the my are ‘standing up for themselves’ when they complain etc but in reality no one is having a go at them, they are actually the ones creating an issue because of their arrogant privileged expectations.

I do think, however, that POC have a right to their own slang, including derogatory names for racists.

The issue here is that this particular word is not being used mostly by POC to describe white women weaponising their race privilege. Instead it has been appropriated by white misogynists, and is being used to mean any woman who steps out of line (as opposed to in an anti-racist context).

I strongly object to that usage, and that is the usage that I am currently seeing most commonly in the UK. I think that any discussion about this word has to recognise and address its current usage, not just its origins (which are valid). Language evolves, and we can't ignore that.

The vast vast majority of times, online and IRL, I have witnessed the Karen slur being used it has been to either tell an uppity woman to shut up OR to mock the hairstyle or hone decor of a working class woman.

The targeted women in the first instance were of various races. What they had in common was merely being female and having the bravery to speak up about something. Often, but not exclusively, over 30.

The targeted women in the second instance were almost always working class, middle aged or older, women. Again of various racial backgrounds.

In real life, despite living in a multicultural area of a huge city, it is white men I have witnessed using the slur. And, occasionally, teenagers.

"Karen" as a slur, used as it is in the UK, harms black women every bit as much as it harms white women. Perhaps more due to black women facing socioeconomic disadvantages due to structural racism. It just means there is yet another word to denigrate ALL women. Yet another barrier to speaking up for ALL women, but especially those already disadvantaged.

Probably not worth it - in my experience they tend to be very angry and not very intelligent and don’t listen to what you say anyway!

Thanks Lizzie. I didn’t respond to her at the time, I sometimes wish I had.

That’s awful!!!!

I agree - I would be fine with BAME calling a racist woman a Karen BUT I think the meaning has sadly been lost and now it’s just used to try and silence women even more

I fail to understand why people are bothered and up in arms specifically about racist white women being called a Karen. I'm not talking about the complainers, or the asserters. The racist white women.

Why does it bother you what a racist woman is called? You should be more bothered about the racism, than what the women being racist is being called.

If you're angry that the Karen movement has moved to the U.K. with different meanings, be angry at the racist middle aged white women who are literally putting black peoples lives in danger who are the real alleged reason as to why the Karen movement started.

The micro racism on this site gets worse and worse every day.

No, I don’t agree with calling women who stand up for themselves Karen and I agree men often use it misogynistically.

It’s not a word I’ve ever used myself but if I see a BAME women use the word to defend herself against a racist, I would support her.

I was called a ‘fucking animal’ once by a white woman in Boots simply for being ahead of her in the queue and telling there was a queue when she tried to go ahead of me.

No one is going to convince me that people can swear at me with impunity. I reserve the right to answer back to racists, using whatever words I like and whatever word I think will hurt them the most.

Use of 'Karen' as a put down in the way it is very often (but I agree not always) used against an older usually (but not always) white woman who is standing up for themselves.

You don't need to care or spend your spare time handing out flyers, but can we agree that that usage of the term is misogynistic, and effectively a replacement for 'stop being a bitch', and that women are allowed to not like it (even if you think that there are far more important things to care about)?

That’s a good point!

I don't think it is mainly 40s and 50s. I think it effectively is for women from around mid 40s until they end up in the 'awww isn't she an old dear' bucket that means people just get confused if she stands up for herself. It basically starts from when a women moves into the 'middle aged, no longer relevant' bucket.

I think people look a lot younger than they used to and you don't tend to hit the 'old dear' bucket until late 70s/80s now and a lot of the people being accused of being Karens are acutally 60s/70s. It's just that a lot of us have a picture in our head of what someone in their 60s/70s looks like based on what our grandmothers looked like at the same age.

Why is it that women in their 40s and 50s get all the vitriol? Why don’t we get it in our 60s and 70s? Are we somehow less threatening then?

That what’s ok?

Would everyone be okay if there was another word for this category of white woman?

Is the anger because it’s someone’s name or the defining of that type of person in itself?

Because lots of people say bitch is the same but it isn’t.

I fail to understand why people are bothered and up in arms specifically about racist white women being called a Karen. I'm not talking about the complainers, or the asserters. The racist white women.

Why does it bother you what a racist woman is called? You should be more bothered about the racism, than what the women being racist is being called.

If you're angry that the Karen movement has moved to the U.K. with different meanings, be angry at the racist middle aged white women who are literally putting black peoples lives in danger who are the real alleged reason as to why the Karen movement started.

The micro racism on this site gets worse and worse every day.

I don’t think it’s intended use was know your place as in you’re bottom of the pile, I think it was know your place as in you’re actually on the top.

For example, the middle class white woman in the restaurant who complains loudly about the ‘unacceptable’ service from the working class non-white waitress. There is no awareness or care for the effects of her actions on the waitress.

The let me see your manager memes struck a cord to many.

But I agree that it is used wrongly now. And that it’s not exactly nice for people genuinely called Karen.

I have been asked this a few times in the past, it is a fair question if asked with sincere and genuine intent.
I can not be equally aghast as I simply don't see it that way.
What I do see, almost without exception, and struggle to get past is the behaviour of the women that get labelled with the term. In short, I guess, I to think they are 'Karens'.

@MNHQ I am NOT calling anyone anything. I am responding to a genuine question in good faith.

That’s horrible. I don’t suppose anyone called him out on it?