About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

😁🍫

My DH is a huge atheist, I’m mainly agnostic but with bouts of wondering. When we’re on holiday some of our favourite places to visit are ruined Abbeys, old graveyards, cathedrals etc. They can be beautiful and peaceful places. You don’t have to be religious to appreciate them or to take a few moments to reflect whilst there.

Chocolate as we know it today wouldn’t exist without Quakers, so they’re ok in my book.

Telling one’s DC one’s views about one’s religious beliefs (or not believing) isn’t ‘closed minded’ per se.

Yes, his comments were dismissive of atheism. However, it doesn't sound like you are open to discussion of different views either. Both of you sound quite inflexible in your views, and it might be worth bearing in mind that both atheism and religion are belief systems that people can get very entrenched in. You seem to both be very attached to the idea that your respective positions are the right ones and the other is wrong.

You seem to have some very absolutist and blanket views about all faiths/religions and the fact that you are very firm about not wanting your children "raised in a faith" is not suggesting openness to discussion. Your stance and some of the things you have said on this thread also suggests you are not very tolerant of the beliefs of others, perhaps because you do not actually know very much about how people of different faiths, religions and denominations live and practice.

I went to a Quaker school, although I had Catholic parents. Many of my friends' parents were Quakers. One of the major principles of Quakerism is allowing children to find their own path. Yes, children may be raised in line with Quaker principles, but this is no different to any parent, religious or otherwise, raising their kids in line with their own beliefs and values. Quakers are actually advised against pushing their children towards any faith, and you can't actually formally become a Quaker until you're 16. I didn't have anything to do with Quakerism for many years after leaving school and returned to it later. It's a personal belief system, my children have been to children's meetings a few times (essentially a play group where they might talk about stuff like kindness, tolerance, inclusion) but they have never been raised with any religious identity.

I'm not saying this to try to "defend" my own faith, but to educate and challenge your assumptions about people who have a faith, how they raise their children and what that means. This will look very different between religions, denominations and families.

Ultimately you and your boyfriend have to work out if your belief systems are compatible, and if there is any room for compromise and understanding if they are different. They may not be, but you may also meet someone who has similar beliefs to you now, but changes later. Many people turn to religion or return to it when their lives hit crisis points, illness, bereavement, etc. Sometimes those things make religious people lose their faith too.

That would be raising them agnostic - which is what her DP is.

She wants to raise them as atheists - that absolutely no God exists.

She is imposing her views by raising them strictly atheists (her DP can’t even explore his own beliefs) which is no different than raising them strictly Christian and not allowing them to explore other beliefs.

It's clear that this conversation has made you realise that your atheism is a very deep-rooted part of you, and it's one that you are protective and defensive of. It might well be your deal-breaker.

You have only been together a year. You have learnt relatively early that this might be a fundamental point of incompatibility. Better to know it now than ten years down the line when you are married and have children.

Raising your children to be atheists is close minded though.

Just like it is saying that the Christian God is the only God.

You can bring them up in a religious/non- religious household, as many people do but only wanting nothing but atheism taught in the home and not even being allowed to explore or be interested in other religions, is absolutely close minded.

A grown adult went to visit a religious building and joked about OP being an atheist - which she is.

This has made OP assume he is judgemental of the way she has been raised and wondering whether she wants kids with him etc - this is a huge over reaction (especially as she knew he was agnostic) and it’s very telling how she’d feel about her kids taking an interest in a religion.

Are you always so controlling?

@RedToothBrush - yes, and I've suggested as much. But hopefully with a little bit more kindness and understanding than some (dont mean you) are showing on this thread.

You come across as very strident in your belief. I wonder if you are very vocal about your atheism? Do you not tolerate the discussion of others beliefs and shut them down if they disagree with you?
I have a friend like that. She is lovely but there are a few random things she is very passionate about. If something comes up about one of her "things" I will mention it but also say something like "of course you will hate it and think it's all kind of wrong" just to acknowledge her strongly held belief but also to avoid another 5 minute lecture of why it was awful etc. My friend (I hope) takes it well. She laughs because she knows exactly what she is like.
Do you think your boyfriend may have been trying to avoid you reacting to him doing something connected to a religion? Trying to avoid a discussion about atheist beliefs by acknowledging that there would be nothing there for you? How would you have reacted to him going to a Quaker House if he hadn't made that remark?
Agnostics are still looking for their belief system and are not anti religion. If atheism is a deal breaker for you and you won't allow your partner/ children to explore the possibility of anything else then I would suggest that this relationship is not the one for you.

I'd probably describe myself as agnostic. I like evidence for things, so tend to believe in what I can see, hear, physically feel etc.

That would rule out the existence of God, technically. But you can't prove a negative so just because there's no real evidence for one doesn't mean it's not a read thing. I just can't prove there is one.

Once, in Italy, we were walking around a beautiful Catholic church. Set in a mountain, with beautiful views. Bells ringing, people in there following their beliefs. It was so strong it could sway even the most hardened atheist into feeling like maybe there's greater forces at work.

He's never said he's religious but he's told you he's unsure about it (that's what agnostic means). He's explored one building and found it interesting. It doesn't mean he wants to raise children Quaker.

My DH grew up in a (non practicing) Catholic family. My family is split in that one half is CoE and the other is LDS, but my dad has no religious beliefs (mum still does) and my sister and I were raised to consider everything and choose for ourselves. That's also how we're raising DD, to be able to make decisions about her own beliefs herself. And we'll accept whatever they are.

You're only a year in. Kids are a while away. And however you choose to raise them, between you, doesn't mean he can't explore his own beliefs.

but you don't have any beliefs....

Admittedly the Quakers do seem to be a bit nicer than many, but they still base their beliefs on the Bible.

They're widely known for being involved in abolition of slavery for example. Less well known is that some were very active in slavery. There are various articles on Quakers in Lancaster for instance ... if you don't live in the area you'd probably be blissfully ignorant about this unsavoury piece of history.

YABU on 2 fronts…
Firstly, assuming that visiting a building once makes you religious.
Secondly, having a problem with his religion either way. It’s controlling.

I would suggest you abandon atheism - your version of which sounds suspiciously like a particularly narrow-minded and dogmatic religion - and adopt apatheism. It is mostly harmless and boils down to "Is there a god/gods? Don't know, don't care."

If it was Friends' House, Euston that he visited then it's a very interesting place.

OPs earlier comments suggest a strong belief in a lack of something. Still a belief isn’t it?

Non practicing catholic here as well. Not trying to shame OP or convert or anything.

I think the OP needs challenging and to have a good think about what it is in religion she doesn't like and whether her response to that is actually just a mirror and not particularly different.

I agree that the OP needs a lot of time and reflection still to establish what is at the root of what she believes and why.

There's clearly 'something' unresolved there.

You haven’t found another atheist? Really?! Where do you live? The majority of people I know are atheists. The U.K. is not a particularly religious country.

Good grief OP, you are massively overthinking this 🤦‍♀️

Which is exactly what she said. She wants them free to make up their own minds without having a faith inposed on them from an early age.

Raising them with a faith would be just as closed-minded in your view then, which is potentially what her partner is edging owards?

You aren't made for each other. Please acknowledge this before you have children together.

Quakerism is about the most benign and tolerant form of religion you could hope to find.

Which parts are a sound basis for behaviour? It being permissible to beat your slaves as long as they don't die on the first day? Genocide, all except the virgins who you can then rape? Child marriage? Stoning adulterers? Admittedly the Quakers do seem to be a bit nicer than many, but they still base their beliefs on the Bible. Or rather has its roots in Christianity.

Plenty of atheists visit religious buildings of all types. They have historical and artistic significance.
He is not going to ‘catch’ religion from visiting any of them.
I feel your overreacting.