Walking to school alone - advice please

Society has changed quite significantly since we were kids ffs!

OK @HauntedbyMagpies I'll bite. Yes society has changed. In many many ways. Here's one - handguns are now banned, so the Dunblane massacre would not happen now in the same way, thank goodness.

What ways has it changed that mean an NT 9yo who is happy to do so is not now safe to walk alone 5 mins to school, crossing no roads, while dozens of other children and parents are doing the same?

I am genuinely interested in knowing what you mean.

You posted earlier that there are more people therefore more predators (!) - even if that is true, while this is a risk, it is a tiny tiny one. And it still exists for a 12yo or a 15yo. When would you let a child walk a safe five-min walk on their own?

As I say, I really believe community aspect of the walk to school makes it a perfect time to start some independence. as @RedToothBrush says, what will magically change when the child hits 10 or 11yo?

Btw my DCs' junior school (separate school from infants) allowed (and I presume still allows) all ages out unsupervised to their parents at the end of the day (so from year 3). It was very very unusual for a year 6 child to be picked up. I don't think this is unsafe or in any way awful @LetItGoHome - why do you think so out of interest?

Edited to add: oh yes @RedToothBrush I very very much agree wrt assessment of risk. No one is saying a 9yo should be left alone all weekend, or allowed to get on a train to London alone. This specific risk (short walk, school times, no roads) sounds very low and perfectly acceptable. If the child were unwilling, there were big roads to cross, it was a 45-minute walk, the answer (from me anyway) would be different. All of this is why there is (thank goodness, and despite the NSPCC) no blanket rule about what age you can allow a child independence.

I think trackers highlight the point about us all having these rather warped ideas of what risks and protections there are out there.

We pick and choose them, in line with what we WANT to believe rather than looking at things from other angles and what unintended consquences and alternative, perhaps indirect risks are. In other words we don't actually consider risk logically and dispassionately. We are measuring risk emotionally, which is worse than useless. It can actually be harmful despite intentions.

A tracker is a parental soothing device. It is not protective. It can be used to mislead you if someone so chooses. It can be used to control. It doesn't solve anything nor reduce risk. It creates other potential issues.

Equally saying that someone is 'too young' to walk to school, without risk assessing on an individual basis according to the area, the child and the community is mindless unthinking nonsense. Its not identifying the actual risks. Nor is it quantifying them. Nor is it considering what the impact of a lack of independence in children does.

Understanding risk is something people do very badly - precisely because of this emotional thing. And people don't understand statistics around risk either.

There was a study done on doctors and how they explained risk to people. Firstly the number who couldn't accurately explain risk was actually alarming. Then theres the biased in the way you phrase things which can influence behavior. Theres a whole world of research about how you remove bias when you present statistics around risk for this reason.

2 streets at 9? Can't see a problem with this at all. My DD walked a lot further than that when she was 10 so only a year older. Their school allowed children from Y4 to walk to and from school as long as parents gave permission.
I also think the school would call you if she didn't turn up, especially if they know she's walking alone.
Not a bad thing to start giving them independence otherwise they will struggle at secondary school.

@RedToothBrush that is one of the best posts I have ever read about trackers. It articulates exactly what I feel about them.

Can’t really imagine a 4 year old getting on the underground by themselves here can you?

Child in question is 9, not 4. And not using underground. Just walking a couple of streets.

They think tracking is harmless so are happy to be tracked, not realising it can make them vulnerable to it being abusive in the future.

My issue with trackers is that you don't know which third party gets your data and what are they going to do with it. All those toys and apps which track your location, fitness or lifestyle can turn out very sinister when you least expect it.

You are teaching them its normal to be tracked. And that sets their boundaries accordingly.

They think tracking is harmless so are happy to be tracked, not realising it can make them vulnerable to it being abusive in the future.

You are teaching them that tracking = protection. Thats fine. But what happens when they have someone come along innocently saying 'let me track you, so i know you are safe' and then uses the tracker to follow them and control them by asking why they have done x, y or z. Is that ok? Just because YOU are using it innocently, doesn't mean others won't. And tbh, you ARE being controlling because you feel the need to track them. You are using the lie that it 'keeps them' safe.

How exactly is it keeping them safe? If something happens to them, by the time you realise that something is amiss, that thing has already happened. They are already in a situation. Are you going to keep tabs on their location the whole time they are out or check occasionally? Its controlling. You are normalising controlling behaviour.

In terms of 'safety' if something actually happens, the only difference is potentially having a better idea of where to start. But not necessarily. Its certainly not guarenteed. The tracker is also not the child. What happens if the tracker goes offline? Or its used to fool you that they are somewhere they are not? ("Mum's put a tracker in my phone so I'm going to leave it here", thus leaving them without the means to contact you should they need to).

The tracker is a misplaced sense of security. It allows you to perhaps ask less questions about where they are going and with who. It may stop them taking as much responsibly. Ultimately it doesn't jump out and beat up someone who is attacking them.

Think about this. How does the tracker ACTUALLY make them safer. Its a reassurance to you, but it doesn't make them safer. Pyschologically I think there are harms within that dynamic too.

Tell your DS to grow up. Doesn’t he care about what she thinks of his refusal to help her?

Maybe she has already told him what she thinks, and she would prefer to walk on her own and meet her friends without big brother trailing along?

I don't think op has said what DD wants to do.

Surely it only does that if you're using it in an obsessive or abusive way?

I have trackers on all three of my kids, the last time I looked at it was before the holidays when one of them said he left his phone at school - I looked on the tracker and it was at home. It had slid under something in his bag lol.

Mine don't tend to roam far from home though and are very open so maybe I just don't have the imagination to be abusive.

I would also do this.

I would have allowed my youngest to walk to school at 9, DH probably wouldn't have though. But if my older kid didn't want to do it when they were literally walking past I would be having some sharp words about being part of a family and occasionally making the smallest of sacrifices to help out. Do I want to do his laundry and make meals every day? No, but I do it because I'm not an arsehole.

Those of you saying it's a big ask - are you serious? What "care" exactly do you think this 15 year old is doing other than walking the sibling to and from school? As if a 15YO is going to get in the house and then be hovering over his little sister until mum gets home. And I think OP would have mentioned that as well.

Air tag her!

Sorry, my post was really responding to Redtoothbrush rather than you, and I should have used the words "social media" rather than "phone"! As a tracker/Sos contract only, it's the same as the watch I'm getting for mine.

I think it’s ok especially if you can track her (tile/airtag in her bag?).

I agree though that I would be expecting the 15yo to be more helpful. Maybe he doesn’t want to walk with her, ok, she can walk 15 metres in front of him and he can watch to make sure she goes in the gate. It won’t kill him. Bet you do plenty for him.

I can't see why he can't take his sister in in the morning but it seems unfair to make him bring her home again. What if he wants to meet up with his friends?
I just don't see a problem with a Year 5 child walking two streets independently

What on earth is your 15yr olds problem? They leave at the same time and go the same way! Tell him to stop being a dick or he gets no pocket money.

I have issues with trackers.

I think it normalises behaviour that can be abusive. Its intrusive and signals you don't trust your child.

I think they cause more problems than they solve.

How?

Genuinely how?

I live 5 minutes from DS's school. Its all residental. There's no roads to cross.

Where's the cultural differences here? No I am not oversimplifying anything. There are plenty of other kids at his school who live in similar houses. Loads of parents walking with younger children. Many of whom know DS. Its not isolated.

I'm reasonably sure there are plenty of other schools across the country which are similar. Indeed, I went to two of them and they still exist.

What is this magic thing that makes this dangerous and that means I have to hold his hand until he reaches high school?

Or is he magically safe to walk to school because actually it is safe and this blanket notion of age being the arbietary factor here is actually a load of made up bollocks?

But my child's phone is only for the safety aspect of it. It doesn't need to be all or nothing, you can use it how it suits. Phones are strictly banned at his school, even at breaktimes and lunchtimes, and he isn't allowed it at home either (nor is he bothered about it). Social media is not allowed nor does he have an interest. It's for safety when he goes out, for us to ring each other if need be and for the tracker app.
I don't know why people have taken my comment of "technology is available to be used in this way" and replied with "but it's bad if it's used in this way". OK? but I'm not?

Our school doesn’t allow it til year 6.

That said, I know some of the girls were already doing it in year 5, as they do tend to develop the road sense and ability to judge when it’s safe to cross etc sooner.

My ds is 10 and I’m not letting him yet, but there are roads to cross and it’s a bit further than your walk.

Tell your DS to grow up. Doesn’t he care about what she thinks of his refusal to help her?

I wouldn't allow it in our very middle class village. I have a daughter same age and am going to allow from Y6. I walked to school alone from age 5, times have changed!

I'd agree when it comes to phones. They shouldn't have phones IMO. But a tracker tag or watch as an extra layer of peace of mind, even if it's just for the first few weeks of walking on their own, seems reasonable. Equally, if everyone is happy with it, then going without in many cases is fine too.

We live on the same street as the school, with no roads to cross, and mine will probably start walking alone soon but currently likes me to come too, at least part of the way. When the time comes, I plan to use one of the kids GPS watches to keep an eye that she doesn't go into the park next door to school and make herself late or anything daft like that. It's not really necessary, but it'll give me extra peace of mind. If she can prove that she walks straight to school every time then it'll eventually become optional.

Of course it's fine!

My DD didn't actually take herself to school until Y6 when she was 10. But the only reason for this was because, before they got in to Y6, they were not allowed inside until 8:55. Since she would have had to leave the house when I set off for work (about 8:20) and school was only 10 minutes walk, she would have been hanging around in the playground for nearly half an hour every day, whatever the weather. Hence I paid for breakfast club.

However, in Y6 they were trusted to go in to their classroom unsupervised from about 8:30 so she walked in alone then. TBH though, she was was perfectly capable of doing the journey unaccompanied at least a year earlier

No, it’s not ok to drive everywhere either. But you are simplifying a change in society and perhaps differences in other countries. Ideally adult should be present to walk a younger child to school. (In my opinion until year 6 and as long as that child is responsible with recognising any dangers, getting themselves there on time, can reliably take a good course of action in an emergency.)
No adults arnt walked around by mummy generally are they. Even though the UK is so ‘backwards’ and ‘wraps the kids in cotton wool’ That’s because older kids will still be able to gain independence. You don’t miss the boat. If you arnt walking across hill and dale by age 7 you don’t somehow become inept forever.
There is a balance of risk and in my opinion in the UK in 2024 it’s too high a risk to let a child younger than y6 walk to school. They are not going to be holding mummy’s hand in y10 trust me. But they might have been saved from a dangerous situation that they wernt old enough / mature enough for.
In the UK it’s also a sad fact that many kids don’t have a school in walkable distance hence the driving. Society / feminist movement and capitalism means that now both parents have to work so it’s harder for parents to be around to walk their kids in even if they wanted to.
Mums often arnt around in the morning to see their kids off / be home if there is a problem getting to school or be there when they finish. And as I said, traffic and population growth has been huge in the past 30 years.

DS is 7 and walks to school by himself. (Parents are actually actively encouraged to do that by the school.) We live in Germany, though. It's completely normal here for kids to walk by themselves from 1st grade onwards, which is when they are about 6.

I also let him walk to places in town by himself, the playground, supermarket or our Indian restaurant, for example. Our roads are quite quiet and set up for walking.