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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this comment about women with no female friends is problematic?

316 replies

Newlifeincoming · 04/09/2024 15:47

I saw a comment recently that said “women who don’t have any friends that are women are red flags. I don’t care what anyone says.”

I find this a bit troubling and potentially judgemental.

AIBU for thinking that this perspective is unfair and doesn’t account for individual circumstances or preferences? What do you think about this kind of statement?

OP posts:
MartinsSpareCalculator · 04/09/2024 22:36

Context is everything really isn't it. If you're talking about women who see it as a weird badge of honour because apparently women are just so bitchy, boring etc then it's a red flag. But sometimes it's by merit of being in male dominated hobbies and workplaces. I have very very few female friends but would absolutely love more.

WhiteLily1 · 04/09/2024 22:36

Anyone who things this statement is true hasn’t met a very wide range of women.
I know a couple of women who are autistic and one who is non binary (the old term for her I guess would he tomboy) Both are gay and both have always just got on with men as friends and not clicked with women.

Merlin321 · 04/09/2024 22:29

I work in a male dominated industry. In my company of 60 odd there are 5 females. 4 are 100% office based and 3 of those are part time. I’m the only site based female. I have to get on with guys, most of my work day is spent with them, 99% of workplace conversations are with them. They are the guys where we know about each others families, hobbies, house buying woes, sports teams etc.

do have a couple of good female school friends (from age 11, I’m mid 30s now) but once I went to uni I really struggled to make female friends because I’m uncomfortable dressed up, makeup mostly irritates my skin and a lot of the focus was on going out out, and I wanted to be in tracksuit bottoms and trainers. My face didn’t fit. It’s not a negative on those girls (and they were girls at the time, women now). The ones on my course were never mean to me and I was always invited but it just wasn’t for me.

Now my hobbies are also mostly male dominated as well. It’s really not to say I don’t have any female friends at all, but I’m sad to say I would probably say I prefer male friends. I’m in a v long term relationship, with a lovely man. I have no interest in any of my male friends, and it’s not necessarily about thinking any sort of ulterior motive about women either. Just going for a curry with the guys is a jeans affair and we can talk about football but that going out with the girls is a dress, makeup and cocktails (based on my female acquaintances/non close friends). If I invited the girls for beer and a burger followed by top golf I’d maybe get one other, and that’s fine. I’m putting off getting married for the silly reason that I’d love a proper wedding ‘do’ but I wouldn’t say I had female friends close enough to be a bridal party and I struggle with the idea that nobody would want to come and literally start from scratch buying a dress I wouldn’t know where to start with styles etc. I don’t fee close enough to any of my female friends to even ask incase they say no and I’m disappointed. That’s on me not them!

The more I read threads the more I think maybe there is an amount of ND at play with me, but at my age and muddling by at work despite chronically overthinking and overanalysing everything which leads to terrible anxiety. Now it’s even worse because I’ve discovered people might think I’m some sort of anti-woman person as well. Can’t bloody win. Whatever happened to each to their own?

Overbearingndn · 04/09/2024 22:12

Galadriell · 04/09/2024 22:00

I think women are much crueller bullies.

You don't seem to like women very much so I'm surprised you're on a predominantly women's site.

Galadriell · 04/09/2024 22:00

I think women are much crueller bullies.

boobot1 · 04/09/2024 21:54

Jojimoji · 04/09/2024 16:42

I'm judgy af about women who claim to get on so much better with men.

I always think its odd. Its difficult to be around a lot of women regularly and not make friends. Women are socialised to be friendly and most are. I would think someone with no friends had issues.

Buddenbruchs · 04/09/2024 21:48

I’m a nurse. For many years I worked on the same ward and some of my female colleagues were bloody awful, cliquey, judgemental and childish. The guys mainly got on, all of them went out together on golfing trips, no one excluded, gentle ribbing at times but mainly good humoured.

MsNeis · 04/09/2024 21:26

Anotherparkingthread · 04/09/2024 16:50

Ahh another example of some shit used by women to put down other women. It's exclusionary bullshit, promoted by the type of person who peaked at 15. How does one propose a women with no female friends makes any female friends if they have all declared her a red flag before knowing anything about her?

This!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 04/09/2024 21:16

That is really kind, StopRightThereDavidCopperfield.

XenoBitch · 04/09/2024 21:16

I don't have many friends, but I have always found it easier to get on with males. Like a few others on this thread, (possible) ND is a thing for me.
I have also been treated awfully in the past by other girls/women in pretty much every setting you can think of.

MsNeis · 04/09/2024 21:14

I think it is a stupid statement and YANBU.

usernolongerexists · 04/09/2024 21:13

Terridactyl · 04/09/2024 17:44

Yes, absolutely. I have severe ADHD and I find myself intimidated by female friendships because I really want them and I overanalyse them and I’m bad at them. It’s not that I am competitive with women or a ‘pick me’ or whatever other shit people are talking about, I would love a really close female friendship but that desire makes me hold back as I’m frightened of coming on too strong so I never get much closer than acquaintances. It makes me so sad.

Men’s friendships are easier because I don’t care as much. Although now I’m married I don’t bother with them any more either really.

I’m not a red flag, I’m just messed up. Maybe that’s a red flag though.

Reading these responses really upsets me.

Edited

I’m so sorry this is upsetting. Some of the deeply unfair things I’ve heard about myself because a lot of women didn’t like me made me howl.

Your comment about not being a red flag, just being messed up and trying to survive resonates completely.

I’m an old, old MNer who rarely posts on MN these days, but posts like this make me feel like I’m five again and lacking because I somehow lack the vibes which make women/ girls think I’m worthy of being a friend somehow.

It is hurtful, small minded and lacks any understanding or empathy for anyone who is less than cookie cutter in their nature.

With our better understanding of diversity and the challenges women face to just survive in today’s toxic society, I really had hoped fora like MN would be further evolved than this. It’s just so disappointing.

@Terridactyl if you are in the market for a woman friend, you’d be more than welcome to drop me a line. 💙

Jumpingthruhoops · 04/09/2024 21:07

Galadriell · 04/09/2024 19:53

Interestingly, most studies show that women would much rather work for a man than another woman. Also, that women are less likely to want to help another woman the more senior she is to them at work. Women also collaborate better with men than other women and a man/woman or man/man partnership is generally more productive than a woman/woman partnership.

Will try and dig out the thread on this. It's a couple years old but very interesting. It also turned into an almighty bunfight when some posters claimed they'd encountered a lot of bitchiness at work, especially in the legal sector, and some of the feminist regulars went totally 😡 about it.

Edited

I'm inclined to agree with a lot of this.

However, when it comes to bosses/colleagues at work, I think it really depends on secure they are in themselves, both personally and professionally.

I've worked for some of the most formidable, charismatic, competent women you are ever likely to meet - they have, hands down, been my absolute favourite bosses!
Conversely, I've had two male bosses I absolutely despised. In both instances, they were weak, insecure, incompetent, aggressive individuals.
I've also experienced the reverse.

LlamaNoDrama · 04/09/2024 20:31

My autistic dd gets on better with boys as they're less socially complicated.

abracadabra1980 · 04/09/2024 20:18

YABU. I'm probably much older than you. The ones I 'judged' as being this type, were the only ones who ended up breaking up marriages and having no problem dating an acquaintances ex.
Of the top of my head I can think of at least four people. They are no longer friends of mine.

tillytown · 04/09/2024 20:05

I think it can be a red flag sometimes, but a bigger red flag is women who claim they only have male friends because they were bullied by girls at school, especially when the bullying is nowhere near as bad as the sexual abuse a lot of girls deal with by the boys/men at school, and yet they still have males in their lives, its so odd. Not only are these women blaming every other single woman in the world for their bullying, but they are completely ignoring the bullying, harassment and crimes their male friends commit when they do so - those women are massive walking red flags.
Be friends with whoever you want, but claiming women are worse than men is ridiculous levels of misogyny that no one should have to deal with.

Newlifeincoming · 04/09/2024 20:02

Jumpingthruhoops · 04/09/2024 19:46

Yes I definitely agree about pick-me women and women who say they don’t like women etc or those kind of comments or get on with men better.

Respectfully, OP, any woman who calls another woman a 'pick me' most certainly isn't a woman's woman. That for me is it's own red flag.

I have close friends both men and women. I've personally always found men easier to get on with.

Well done.

OP posts:
Loudhousefun · 04/09/2024 20:02

I enjoy the company of both men and women yet I won't deny some women I've known are petty and bitchy in ways men are not. Men manage to be arseholes in different ways.

This is an excellent summarisation of how I feel too.

Lifeofthepartay · 04/09/2024 19:53

I used to have female friends in secondary school and highschool, then a mixed group (but majority of women) in university. I then moved to the UK and I find it incredibly difficult to maintain friendships. I have a handful of females that I technically consider friends but in reality only one would make an effort the same as me, the rest of them I see only if I initiate plans...😔, and none of them are close enough that I can confide in or would trust to help me if God forbid I get into any kind of emotional, health or financial need.

Galadriell · 04/09/2024 19:53

Jumpingthruhoops · 04/09/2024 19:46

Yes I definitely agree about pick-me women and women who say they don’t like women etc or those kind of comments or get on with men better.

Respectfully, OP, any woman who calls another woman a 'pick me' most certainly isn't a woman's woman. That for me is it's own red flag.

I have close friends both men and women. I've personally always found men easier to get on with.

Interestingly, most studies show that women would much rather work for a man than another woman. Also, that women are less likely to want to help another woman the more senior she is to them at work. Women also collaborate better with men than other women and a man/woman or man/man partnership is generally more productive than a woman/woman partnership.

Will try and dig out the thread on this. It's a couple years old but very interesting. It also turned into an almighty bunfight when some posters claimed they'd encountered a lot of bitchiness at work, especially in the legal sector, and some of the feminist regulars went totally 😡 about it.

Galadriell · 04/09/2024 19:48

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 04/09/2024 19:39

I have never heard the term handmaiden or pick me, no idea what they mean!

Basically, it's a derogatory term for women that feminists claim pander to men. It seems in many cases it's used to shut down women that call out negative attitudes/statements about men (bit like when people accuse women of being 'a Karen' when they complain about something, even if it's a legitimate complaint).

Barrenfieldoffucks · 04/09/2024 19:47

TheNameIsDickDarlington · 04/09/2024 15:51

Its not nice to tar everyone with the same brush.

However I imagine this comment is more directed to the type of women who say "I just get on better with men." "Women are too bitchy" etc. Which personally I do feel is a massive red flag as they clearly have some internalised misogyny.

I wouldn't think the same thing about someone who had no female friends due to moving a long distance and simply not having been able to make friends yet.

Yes, this I would agree with.

Jumpingthruhoops · 04/09/2024 19:46

Newlifeincoming · 04/09/2024 15:59

Oh sorry if I wasn’t clear. Yes I definitely agree about pick-me women and women who say they don’t like women etc or those kind of comments or get on with men better. I guess I found it a blanket statement. I’ve always had close female friends, but there were times I felt out with my girlfriends and didn’t have friends for a bit, or cut bad friends out of my life so didn’t have any female friends for a bit, and made new friends. So unless it’s clear as to what we all seem to agree here about women who boast about not having female friends for example, or that they don’t like women etc, I don’t think it’s a red flag. I also didn’t announce I didn’t have any female friends ha and deffo wanted to make new girlfriends when friendship groups dispersed for example.

Yes I definitely agree about pick-me women and women who say they don’t like women etc or those kind of comments or get on with men better.

Respectfully, OP, any woman who calls another woman a 'pick me' most certainly isn't a woman's woman. That for me is it's own red flag.

I have close friends both men and women. I've personally always found men easier to get on with.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 04/09/2024 19:39

I have never heard the term handmaiden or pick me, no idea what they mean!

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 04/09/2024 19:35

No I don't see it as a red flag, more a personality type. I would however be concerned if someone said 'I don't like women' or 'I don't like men'. This type of blanket statement from a man or a woman makes me think they are narrow minded and prejudiced and make me immediately lose respect.