Refugees "visiting home"

I'm afraid this is either completely fabricated or your "acquaintance" is bullshitting you for what is no doubt an entertaining reaction.

Asylum seekers who leave the UK will have their claims unceremoniously withdrawn under paragraph 333C(b) of the Immigration Rules.

Insulting people because you're losing an argument isn't a good look. Neither is being a pedant.

Again, I have never suggested she has been granted refugee status. That is in your head and you seem a bit fixated.

She is here because she is fleeing a war. Emergency measures were rushed through and visas were given to expedite a quickly developing situation.

She is not here because she was granted a temporary visa. She is here because she was fleeing a war and therefore was granted a temporary visa.

TBH the Ukrainians i know, are all working, doing jobs we don't want to do, they also take an active part in our local community, one has organised a twinning with a Ukrainian town and does a Ukrainian evenings at the local community centre.

Perhaps those moaning about Ukrainians here will step up and become carers & nursery workers.

They will also return once or if, Ukraine is at peace again.

You know that you can be rich, and still at risk of being bombed. What does wealth have to do with it? Can you only be a refugee if you’re poor???

They have a different status.

People who receive visas through the Ukraine Family Scheme are not officially designated as asylum seekers or refugees but receive a different temporary status. This status has some benefits over claiming asylum because it entitles those issued visas under the scheme to the right to work, study, and claim benefits.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/ukrainian-migration-to-the-uk/#:~:text=People%20who%20receive%20visas%20through,%2C%20study%2C%20and%20claim%20benefits.

I have no problem supporting people here on a temporary basis due to circumstance to get an uninterrupted education and hopefully [for them] to return home at some point to help rebuild their country.

A true refugee would I think struggle to visit home for a "holiday" unless given the right to work and reside here as re-entry to the UK would be problematic. At that point I would not personally classify them as refugees as their cases have been reviewed and they have moved into resident or whatever category comes next.

OP isn't being as fatuous as some think! This topic merits a 50 page policy explanation from the Home Office so it's not straightforward.

Article 1C of the Refugee Convention provides that the Convention no longer applies where someone voluntarily re-avails themselves of the protection of their home country, or takes up the protection of another - which is why someone ceases to be a refugee if they are subsequently granted British citizenship. If someone is a refugee from Iran, say, and they return to Iran while they hold refugee status then their refugee status will be revoked under part 11 of the Immigration Rules.

Similarly humanitarian protection can be revoked if the circumstances that caused it to be granted no longer apply.

When someone is granted refugee status they get 5 years leave. If they acquire another citizenship or return to their home country in that time their refugee status gets revoked, although they can travel elsewhere on their Refugee Convention travel document.

At the end of 5 years they apply for indefinite leave. If the situation in their home country hasn't changed then they get indefinite leave and a year later can apply for citizenship. If it has then the Home Office decide whether they should be allowed to stay or expected to return, and of course someone who has learned English, got a job, formed relationships etc will be in a better position than someone who hasn't.

Once they have citizenship they are no longer a refugee. Someone who came as a refugee, got citizenship, and then finds the situation in their home country has vastly improved may well choose to travel back for holidays.

As others have said though, Ukrainians were granted leave under a Ukraine-specific appendix to the Immigration Rules so these rules do not apply.

You're talking sophistic and convoluted nonsense.

What? Do you think having a lot of money in your bank account or expensive things will mean that the bombs and bullets will miss you? You don't have to be hard-up financially to be fleeing war (or, for men, depending on age and health, possibly also fleeing being drafted for the war effort).

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back?

Well let's think about this. Would you move to Ukraine? Is it safe enough for you?

There is a war on. Her home town was flattened.
If she's working and studying and paying her way why are you so desperate for her not to stay in the UK?

Id assume the risks are exactly the same . It’s not as if missiles pause to find out if you’re a resident or just there on a mini break, Russian soldiers don’t stop and check before they rape if someone is on holiday or actually lives there. The risk is the same I think it’s just those going home are desperate to see family so probably take the risk and try to keep their visits as short as they can ?

It's because the anti-immigrant rhetoric in this country is out of control and these so called 'valid questions' and 'concerns' fuel the fire.

I also knew a Syrian who’s family were in a safe area and himself living in the gulf but saw an opportunity for the family to move to Europe permanently and took it. I think they immigrated to Germany. It can be a grey area because he was worried about his family, they didn’t NEED to leave as such but there was an opportunity for a better life by claiming asylum. This is btw a well educated family who will be no drain on any country they land up in but I think it can be a bit complicated.

I agree with this.

FFS OP, how heartless are you.

Shes arrived back beside herself. Because it’s actually really dangerous to be anywhere in Ukraine - russia bombs peaceful cities all the time, and it’s not just the ones close to the border.

Of course she misses her family and wants to go back. Yes her Mum could come here to visit, but the men in the family can’t.

I can’t believe some people’s lack of empathy.

Some refugees are fleeing persecution and can never go back (or not until the regime in their home country changes), but it’s not Ukraine this young woman has fled from, it’s Russia’s actions towards Ukraine.

People also made the comparison with the Blitz, and it’s also a valid one. People are willing to risk visiting family in a dangerous situation, that doesn’t mean they should be obliged to move into it.

I think so too. It’s a shame people can’t just politely educate the OP without all the bitchiness.

I think it’s because generally our idea of asylum is people fleeing their own governments. If you are an afghan for example saying the Taliban are after you then flying back home would be a bit mad given that the Taliban control all ports. Or if you are an Iranian dissident, you would probably be arrested as soon as you got off the plane. A lot of situations are a bit more complex and less straightforward.

My friend moved overseas from Syria. His parents then came to join him during the war after he arranged their visa at great expense. They kept going back home because they were home sick and missed everyone which drove him mad because it absolutely wasn’t safe and he was terrified they were going to die. I guess it must be so hard when it’s PROBABLY going to not lead to you dying and you miss home so much. I would like to think I would be more sensible but who knows?

It couldn't possibly have anything more to do with the law, in fact. The Dunning Kruger vibes in you are strong. There are a great many people fleeing wars who don't get the relative protection of refugee status. The mere act of fleeing certainly doesn't create it.

The one thing you've got right so far is that refugee gets used colloquially. But that's a problem here because being a refugee has a legal meaning and one that would also impact on the ability to legally return to the home country. That doesn't apply to the woman OP is talking about, ie the whole subject of the thread.

@Devilsmommy

@dyzzie

Gosh, let’s think about this for a minute…

Lots of British born working people are professionally qualified/own their own business etc. and earn a high salary and therefore can afford a higher standard of living including taking 3 or more foreign holidays a year.

Incredibly, people living in lots of other countries that are not the U.K. also have professional jobs / own businesses and earn a high salary and have a high standard of living and take numerous foreign holidays.

REFUGEES: Is it possible that people fleeing war might also have been well educated and well paid professionals with substantial savings which instead of being stored under their mattress are held in accounts in Banks such as HSBC which has branches worldwide?

Or have you been lapping up the racist newspapers that try to sell the idea that all refugees are desperate to live in the U.K. in order to sign on for benefits?

FWIW, I have 3 members of my extended family who are foreign born and all are educated to degree level, hold down professional jobs and tend to return to their home country to visit relatives pretty frequently. Two came to the U.K. originally as postgrad students. The UK is bloody lucky they chose to stay and work here!!!!!!

Of course it isn't safe to return. Do you ever read the news?

It isn't safe for her to visit, either, but she will of course know this and has decided that she is willing to take the risk, for quite understandable reasons.

I do wonder about how hard-up financially and 'fleeing war' some of the Ukrainians that have come over are. One lives in my street drives a fancy Lexus .. under the homes for Ukrainian scheme. Doesn't seem to work and has a nice free place to live.. I do think some are taking advantage perhaps not necessary as clearly he has a good extra income. Not 'refugee bashing' but just a valid observation

No it doesn’t.

It has nothing to do with 'the law'. People fleeing to other countries because of war are called refugees. They don't need any paperwork or application to be called that - that's what they are.

In any case, that's what we've been calling them, that's what the government's been calling them and that's what the main stream media's been calling them.

Is this a bit like the Covid shot? We never made you have it! We never said it would stop you getting it! We never said it would stop transmission! We never said it was perfectly safe!

As is often the case - first answer nails it