Refugees "visiting home"

My friend is Ukrainian, not a refugee but able to live here. She is currently visiting her family in Ukraine who are too old to leave, she posts on Instagram videos of the constant air raid sirens. Travelling to Ukraine is not easy either - plane, train and buses with long border waits. The war has no sign of ending so do you think they should never see loved ones again? Ukrainians are proud of their country and most would rather live there.
OP you are an arsehole.

This has me thinking, surely if it is safe enough for her to return home to visit, it's safe enough for her to move back?

Sounds like the kind of thing NIMBY's say.

I actually don’t think it is unreasonable of the OP to say that she is confused. Due to the media, we get a very polarised and simplistic message “migrants bad, poor refugees fleeing from unsafe condition” with no nuance. If you have no experience, no reference point, it can be difficult to understand the logic - if a country is unsafe, why is it safe to go there on a ‘holiday’? Some people find it harder than others to put themselves in other people’s shoes.

One thing to consider is for you personally, what situation could EVER be worth leaving your home, family, job, life… for potentially unknown in a country with a different language… hoping you will be safe but not sure…? Or send your child off etc, not knowing they will be safe…? and realise that this is the point that all refugees and asylum seekers have actually experienced in real life.

I think previous posters have adequately expressed:

1. It is not safe. It is not safe. It is not safe. It is terrifying. People are taking the risk anyway, in order to see loved ones. If you are worried every minute that you may never see your family again, you will often take the risk (perhaps a considered risk) to see them.
2. Ukrainians are not here as refugees, although they may be called this unofficially.
3. It is not in any way to be compared to what we may imagine a holiday. Normally, we wouldn’t come ‘home’ from a holiday wondering ‘is this the last time I’m ever going to see my …?”

No it doesn't. Why are you posting this when you obviously don't know anything about the law in this area?

Really safe. 75km from Poland

x.com/saintjavelin/status/1831234241260097988?s=46&t=En7uHsBtveeyWz6jMQkU-A

She's apparently fleeing a war so that makes her a refugee, whatever her legal status.

No the difference between a person on a temporary visa here and one awarded refugee status here is very different.

Not in the slightest, no. Legally the two are very different. Different legal tests, one has a process in place for settlement while the other doesn't, and crucially, people with leave to remain under one of the Ukrainian schemes aren't at risk of losing it if they return to Ukraine whereas a recognised refugee would be. The last point is particularly important when OPs question was about going back.

Ah ok, just a bit of semantics then.

timenowplease · Today 11:31

Peakpeakpeak · Today 10:58
She's not a refugee. Cancel the refugee cheque. The whole premise of this thread is wrong.

What is she then?

An individual human being on a temporary visa, the same as many given them to come to do specific work, or study here. They have a slightly different status in terms of entitlement but very similar.

Absolutely this. For Ukranians it’s about opportunities vanishing when their home country was forced into a war. Safety being part of it but also education, work, etc also being a massive factor. Life as they knew it changed overnight. It must have been so hard for the teenager to leave her home and family.m… basically her entire life. Of course she should be able to go back freely to visit

This
Only reason refugees can return home to visit family is because there’s a reasonably priced flight network. WW2 it wouldn’t have been possible at all.
And they are all at risk of being killed at any moment.

People who live in war zones are also not always living in places with ground combat on a daily basis. They have to leave their homes to get water, food, attend work, go on transport, work in hospitals and so on. If the fighting gets too near or too intense, they stay home, but everyone can't stockpile enough water etc and power may go on and off. Why do you think people die when they are working in hospitals in Gaza- because they showed up for work! People on here have a very strange idea that an entire country would grind to a halt and everyone stay indoors- remember Covid, when we needed people to work in essential services, otherwise things like sewage, rubbish, medicine, food delivery, cannot occur- and this is risky for those people, but they take that risk as they need money to live off from their wages and they need to feed themselves and their children.

Some places seem safe, then they get bombed, that's why the people are there, they didn't know that in advance...

Good idea!

A Ukrainian with leave to remain under one of the special schemes for Ukrainians. Likely the Homes for Ukraine or family members scheme. These are both legally different from refugee status, which is not an accident.

She is a migrant here on a temporary visa. If you google you will find details of the scheme put in place for Ukranians.

This first post has nailed it ^^

What is she then?

This thread really is one of the worst I have ever read on MN. Respect to those of you who have had the stomach to refute some of the heartless crap posted.

My neighbour just returned to a country which is actively at war with another country, she went to visit elderly relatives. She was very stressed and would only travel for this reason, had preparations for if she got stuck, and had difficulty getting insurance. Plans to evacuate if needed. People do live and work in war zones, or places that might suddenly erupt. They usually visit once the active fighting has died down or moved on, but that doesn't mean they are fully safe, or that law and order is restored or a bombing raid won't suddenly happen, and it also means that things like education (if she's studying) won't be happening in the same way, so it's better to go elsewhere, study and then return. Schools and education are disrupted, partly because so many people have fled.

I also have friends who are from a place where war broke out last year and some of their relatives were shot. They will still visit in a year or two.

If you come from somewhere, you navigate the risk in a way that is not imaginable if you are not from it.

All of this, and if Putin wins he won't stop at Ukraine. War may come closer to home than people here imagine.

Ukrainians are the shield that guards the rest of Europe ATM. We should respect and protect them, not question their right to be here or visit home.

Also relevant is that both the Ukraine and the UK and other European governments don't want the Ukrainians to stay here permanently,

The war will end.

When it ends, Ukraine wants its people to come back to help rebuild the place. The U.K. and other European governments want the Ukrainians who have come to Europe for safety (mostly women and children because as mentioned men between 18-60 can't leave) to go back to Ukraine after the war.

So there is a special scheme for Ukrainians and they are not legally refugees nor do they have permanent rights to settle in the countries where they are.

After the war the expectation is that most will go home. So in many ways if they are keeping up links with family back there that is a good thing.

In general if people are displaced due to war and then the war ends they want to go home.

How the fuck she affords it is with her fucking wages.

It’s not a week at Claridges, ffs. It’s a cheap flight to Ukraine.

Daily Mail too left wing for you so you thought you’d stir things up here?

That was to @graceinspace999 but quote feature seems to have mangled.

All this confusion, lack of understanding and bewilderment. Very timely

I see a U24 donation coming on