Feral children

My mum is a tiny woman and when we were kid, if we dared back chat (not that it happened often) she had this really bendy flip flop and it always seemed to be handy, she would bend it and you'd get a flick of it on your calf 🤣 we've always laughed about that as adults, how the little fly bite flick would stop us in our tracks 🤣

The children who behave like this don't always come from obviously chaotic households. Very often, they're from "nice, middle-class" households where parents can't say "No!" to their offspring. (Yes, I know that that is not gentle parenting.)

I'm basing my comment on my experiences in secondary schools. Elsewhere on here, I've told of how I was punched in the stomach when I was pregnant (but not obviously so). I was in my 40s, so kept myself sane by telling myself that I would have probably lost it anyway - I never managed to reach beyond the first trimester.

One pupil was assaulted and then I was punched. The two male teachers who came to my assistance were also punched. The local police "lost" the statements. (The boy was below the age of 16, so it wouldn't have gone beyond the Children's Panel here.)

I couldn't prove that I'd ever been pregnant: I'd been waiting to re-test, because I'd only got a faint positive. Being an idiot, I didn't want the boy to be stricken with guilt.

Some years later, I found out that this now adult male was boasting about punching me - I had girls coming into my class giggling about it.

This was a boy from a "good" home. Around the same time, another boy punched a male teacher who happened to be of small stature. Again, a boy from a "good" home. (At least in his case, the police got him for breaking into cars as soon as he turned 16.)

Behaviour in Scotland is becoming increasingly worse in schools. I do occasional supply. A visibly pregnant TA was punched at my place of work earlier this year.

I can't speak for what's happening in England, but in Scotland a huge part of the problem is that the courts won't deal with those under the age of 16 here. If anything happens at all, it's a referral to The Children's Panel or SACRO. (My assailant was referred to SACRO 20 yrs ago. He told them I'd "got in the way". Translation - was desperately trying to keep my stomach away from him. They wanted me to have a "restorative conversation" with him. I refused.)

I can think of one boy who did actually finish up in secure accommodation. He'd set light to a homeless person.

To my mind, the only way to stop the rot is to bring back meaningful consequences. Teenagers - to my mind - just see "Restorative Justice" as a kind of weakness.

I'd also want to see strong penalties for teenagers who film assaults and upload them to social media.

Another problem that I'm seeing here is that when the problem is a chaotic household, social workers are reluctant to remove children from that household: "The best place for them is at home."

The 60;s called and asked if you are back any time soon.

If I were to take a wooden spoon to my son when he was 15 (and frankly he was being such an arsehole at the time that a spoon was the least of what I wanted to do) it would be ME in court. Sadly thanks to the internet the one time I slapped him around the face for telling me to fuck off, his online mates told him to call the police as it was assault. They were loving the drama and egging him on and he was daft enough to listen to them.

Social services were involved as the "violence in the househole" happened in front of his (then) 8 year old sister. So no, you have "told [parents] how to do it" at all. Unless "it" is "making things worse".

Extremely strange comment. You do have a wooden spoon in your kitchen, right? That's what I meant.

Another thing about crime statistics is that homicide figures are affected by medical science and infrastructure. People are surviving violent attacks that would have killed them 10, 20, 30 years ago because of things like mobile phones, air ambulances, armed forces trauma experience informing improvements in emergency medicine, etc.

Actual picture of the spoon:

You and others are crying in this thread about how it's supposedly impossible to control children. I've told you how to do it, then your response is to make snarky comments. It seems that some people don't want to be helped.

You want us to execute 12 year olds? Wow. I'm pretty sure even Saudi Arabia doesn't execute minors.

A teenage boy can still receive a firm punch on their ear, or can be beaten using a wooden spoon. Teenagers have no means for earning their own money, so they can be controlled by removing financial privileges from them too
🤣
You're from the 1950s arent you @shuggles

It’s happened in braustone town not braunstone estate, not saying it’s up market but it’s not a ghetto

The rights of law-abiders should always take priority over the rights of criminals. Every time, and at every level.

I think this would only be true if you were a sociopath/psychopath. If you look at the children who commit crime they all have the same factors growing up, that can't be a coincidence

I think it is possible to prevent people from becoming criminals but incredibly hard to rehabilitate them
I agree @EsmaCannonball, (although I'm not sure that everyone can be prevented . . .)

Re the calls to imprison the parents of offending children, the feeling is understandable but I dont think this is workable for several reasons.
EG
-It would give children a weapon to use against parents
-Sets a dangerous precedent of people being punished for the crimes of others.
-These parents imprisoned for the crimes of their children, will they come out reformed & ready to be model parents? Or will they come out even worse people than they went in, & wanting revenge on their kids?

Maybe mandatory parenting classes where both have to attend?

A teenage boy can still receive a firm punch on their ear, or can be beaten using a wooden spoon.

Someone please start a thread entitled "How to discipline your 6ft teenager with a wooden spoon". It would be right up there with Penis Beaker.

I think it's far too simplistic to say "what's wrong with the children".

A better question is "how did some children get to that point, what happened to them?"

Because we know that adequately parented children do not generally do stuff like this. Something is wrong.

What are you talking about?!
Not all Sikhs have turbans!!
He wasn't a Muslim - his name is Kohli a Punjabi Sikh / Hindu surname.
You don't need to know the history of the name.

@PyongyangKipperbang Of course the fact that he is bigger and stronger then her is a major part of that! When they are 6 you can pick them up and dump them into school, but you cant do that when they are 16 and bigger than you! Especially if that kid is violent.

I'm not sure why you're obsessed with the idea of 6 foot teenage boys specifically, because no one would be able to physically pick up any teenager regardless of their size. I don't think I could physically dump a teenage girl into school either.

The point though is that size is irrelevant. A teenage boy can still receive a firm punch on their ear, or can be beaten using a wooden spoon. Teenagers have no means for earning their own money, so they can be controlled by removing financial privileges from them too. Size doesn't count for anything- make it clear to a teen what they need to do, and what the consequences will be if they don't do it.

Car theft has risen in our area, we had a meeting with our mp and a chief of police about it. Ford Eco sports are being especially targeted for parts to be sent abroad apparently. We've had 4 thefts in our road and someone had a go at stealing my catalytic converter .

Poor man, they need to bring back the death penalty for all these very dangerous criminals of the world

Based on this measure, knife crime increased by 90% between 2012/13 and 2019/20 in England and Wales. And, though it fell in 2020/21 due to COVID-19 social distancing measures, it has since increased in 2021/22 and 2022/23, and is now 75% higher than in 2012/13.

The issue of crime just isn’t being addressed. It is almost as though as it okay if the peasants kill each other.
I can’t help but think that countries with tougher laws don’t have this problem. The above increase is shocking and we never have money to tackle the root cause as that involves public spending.

And you know this for a fact??

Omar Wilson.

I've read differing things about if the area where the attack took place could be considered part of the carnival. The food stalls had been set up to attract carnival-goers.

I quite agree about laws being enforced equally and fairly - I think it would be highly unlikely.
Unfortunately, while we've seen 'advertising campaigns' by police services showing front doors being cut open or broken in to apprehend rioters, there was no similar coverage of the arrested attackers of the chef or the young mother.
Policing without fear or favour is due a comeback.

@Overbearingndn the OP says "Five children, three of them 12 years old, have killed an 80 year old dog walker".

That was always a rather ambitious claim given the available evidence, but in the light of the updates from this evening showing that four of the children have been released without charge, might it be an idea to ask MNHQ to edit the post?