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Feral children

678 replies

Overbearingndn · 03/09/2024 19:01

Several children, have been arrested in connection with the death of an 80 year old dog walker.

What is wrong with children today? I remember the Bulger case and it sent shockwaves around the world, now people just accept that children kill.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/sep/03/five-children-arrested-over-murder-80-year-old-man-in-leicestershire

opening post edited by MNHQ

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Thevelvelletes · 04/09/2024 06:41

My elderly mum had eggs thrown at her window,two kids banged on her door to say boy's had done it ..I'm hazarding they were in on it.
My mum was terrified and has serious health issues and like anyone should feel safe in their home.

PointsSouth · 04/09/2024 06:35

soupfiend · 03/09/2024 21:31

Not really comparable given there was no social state as such, children were not required to attend school until the 1880s or so and many many things were crimes that were not these days

Not to mention that there is an approach now by police, schools, public services that we are not to criminalise children. So many crimes that are committed by children, even quite violent crimes are usually NFA. You wont hear about them and theres no consequences within criminal justice.

….in which case it’s an apples and oranges thing, and one can’t glibly put this down to @shuggles‘ ‘breakdown of traditional values and morality’…

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/09/2024 06:31

@WearyAuldWumman I remember your post, horrific and it has stayed with me. As shocking at this Leicester case is, thinking about it it's hardly an uncommon occurance for a gang of youths to attack and even kill people, I'm thinking most recently of the bus driver in Aberdeenshire. Of course the SNP response is to become ever softer on youth crime.

As @@Thevelvelletes rightly also points out about Aberdeen. I've read numerous recent reports of the situation there and it's not good.

Thing is, there's a massive culture in Scotland of tolerance for low level poor behaviour from children and they are allowed to play out unsupervised from a very young age. Anyone who is on a fb community group will have seen the posts complaining about chappie (knocking a door and running away), kids coming into gardens etc and the amount of vitriol they generally get back is staggering. Person after person saying aww they're just weans and weren't you ever young? Oh and there's nothing for them to do apparently.
Of course by 12/13 the behaviour has then escalated to vandalism and assault. Absolutely zero consequences. As an adult, if you tell them off you'll be hounded mercilessly and probably have the parents on you as well. Defend yourself and it's you that's in trouble.

If I have to pass a group of teens in the street now, I can feel my heart rate escalate. I won't get trains when they're travelling to or from school.

Thevelvelletes · 04/09/2024 06:21

Oh and the closing down of community police offices often in the most deprived areas of Aberdeen that have serious issues.

Thevelvelletes · 04/09/2024 06:18

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/09/2024 06:14

Almost everywhere in the western world, including the UK, crime is about half what it was 30 years ago. (Nobody knows why, either.)

Because there are barely any police and it's impossible to report almost any crimes.

Or if in Scotland, police Scotland only investigate certain crimes,This was trialled in Aberdeen it was such a success that anti social behaviour in the city centre took off as did graffiti and criminal damage all over the city.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 04/09/2024 06:14

Almost everywhere in the western world, including the UK, crime is about half what it was 30 years ago. (Nobody knows why, either.)

Because there are barely any police and it's impossible to report almost any crimes.

Auburngal · 04/09/2024 06:00

From my experience, there are parents who don’t give a toss about their kids and those parents who will do anything for their kids.

There is a strong correlation between income and showing interest in their children.

Though there are exceptions. Such as my friend and her friend who share a home together, take two lots of siblings out on days out and week’s holiday. As the kids’ parents treat kids as inconveniences. They behave incredibly well. Kids are in tears when they go home.

Want to adopt them but such upheaval from 0 kids to 4 kids aged 4-12 plus need a larger home as have a 2 bedroom flat.

coxesorangepippin · 04/09/2024 01:49

Eight girls, all of them between the ages of 13 and 16

Absolutely heartbreaking

FGSChargethecarregularly · 04/09/2024 01:39

I also wanted to say to @PyongyangKipperbang I’m sorry you had to go through that for trying to discipline your child.

FGSChargethecarregularly · 04/09/2024 01:37

Reading what the neighbours thought of him was so sad. He was clearly a lovely man; keeping himself busy and fit, cheerful.

I just cannot imagine what his family must be feeling like. The thought of anyone attacking my skinny little old dad would make me want to fucking kill them.

I’m so sorry.

Also sorry for what happened to you @WearyAuldWumman snd your colleague @HeyPrestoAlakazam.

I’m fearful for my kids. Things are really changing.

eggplant16 · 04/09/2024 01:11

I am not one bit surprised. I am surprised it doesn't happen more frequently, maybe it does but we don't hear about it.
So much has changed. The Church used to hold sway, morality, family ties. Services were in place if needed.
All gone now. No social mobility. Greed, the cult of the individual. Smart phones.

Lalgarh · 04/09/2024 00:52

HotelCustody · 03/09/2024 22:46

Leicester police have announced, all the children apart from one 14 year old still in custody, have now been released with no further action.

So it's just One Of Those Things eh? Kohli is dead and it's All Very Unfortunate

suburberphobe · 04/09/2024 00:50

I know primary school teachers who have said that parents now think it is entirely the teacher's job to stop their child hitting or swearing; who think it is the teacher's job to toilet-train their child or teach them how to use a knife and fork. I even know teachers who have said there are parents who expect them to get their child washed and dressed in the morning.

OMG. It feels like I have just walked into a parallel universe, reading that. WTF?!

Feel so sorry for that man, just going about his business walking his dog. And so sad for his family and friends. They must be reeling, in shock and broken. My heart breaks for them.

Just dread to think what kind of families those children have grown up in - not excusing them, mind!

Feral kids indeed. Awful.

BlackShuck3 · 04/09/2024 00:49

One of my colleagues was kicked in the stomach as a TA and miscarried that evening at 12 weeks. The boy who kicked her was the child of an internationally renowned neurosurgeon and a university professor. He was never disciplined and the parents made a complaint about her “victimising” him, threatening legal action, when she refused to work with him. He was severely neglected at home
Awful, absolutely awful @HeyPrestoAlakazam , your poor colleague😥
Obviously the boy should face consequences, but the parents are also acting out of wanting to cover up for their neglect (they will know at some level imo).

TERFtown · 04/09/2024 00:47

God bless the man.

Does anyone know what happened to the dog?

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2024 00:47

HeyPrestoAlakazam · 04/09/2024 00:30

I’m so sorry to hear of the awful assault and pregnancy loss you went through.

As an ex-teacher, I completely recognise what you’re saying and have seen it first hand (and it’s partly why I’m an ex-teacher).

One of my colleagues was kicked in the stomach as a TA and miscarried that evening at 12 weeks. The boy who kicked her was the child of an internationally renowned neurosurgeon and a university professor. He was never disciplined and the parents made a complaint about her “victimising” him, threatening legal action, when she refused to work with him. He was severely neglected at home.

That's horrendous.

At least in my case I wasn't even as far on as that. I'm so sorry that that happened to your colleague.

The parents' reaction sounds typical, I'm sorry to say.

Tinkeebell · 04/09/2024 00:46

Demonhunter · 04/09/2024 00:20

My mum is a tiny woman and when we were kid, if we dared back chat (not that it happened often) she had this really bendy flip flop and it always seemed to be handy, she would bend it and you'd get a flick of it on your calf 🤣 we've always laughed about that as adults, how the little fly bite flick would stop us in our tracks 🤣

😆

ErniesGhostlyGoldTops · 04/09/2024 00:33

SanMarzano · 03/09/2024 19:47

did I miss a breakdown in the value of not committing murder? Last time I checked that was still socially unacceptable

Social acceptability is neither here nor there now though. You only have to read a newspaper from thirty years ago to realise how far the morals of this country has dropped in a very short space of time.

People don't take responsibility for themselves or their actions and have the manners of pigs.

There was a time when you could have an adult conversation and get most issues sorted out then and there but people are so touchy and impossible, I interact as little as possible with people now.

It's sad that this country is turning into an absolute nightmare.

HeyPrestoAlakazam · 04/09/2024 00:30

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2024 00:17

The children who behave like this don't always come from obviously chaotic households. Very often, they're from "nice, middle-class" households where parents can't say "No!" to their offspring. (Yes, I know that that is not gentle parenting.)

I'm basing my comment on my experiences in secondary schools. Elsewhere on here, I've told of how I was punched in the stomach when I was pregnant (but not obviously so). I was in my 40s, so kept myself sane by telling myself that I would have probably lost it anyway - I never managed to reach beyond the first trimester.

One pupil was assaulted and then I was punched. The two male teachers who came to my assistance were also punched. The local police "lost" the statements. (The boy was below the age of 16, so it wouldn't have gone beyond the Children's Panel here.)

I couldn't prove that I'd ever been pregnant: I'd been waiting to re-test, because I'd only got a faint positive. Being an idiot, I didn't want the boy to be stricken with guilt.

Some years later, I found out that this now adult male was boasting about punching me - I had girls coming into my class giggling about it.

This was a boy from a "good" home. Around the same time, another boy punched a male teacher who happened to be of small stature. Again, a boy from a "good" home. (At least in his case, the police got him for breaking into cars as soon as he turned 16.)

Behaviour in Scotland is becoming increasingly worse in schools. I do occasional supply. A visibly pregnant TA was punched at my place of work earlier this year.

I can't speak for what's happening in England, but in Scotland a huge part of the problem is that the courts won't deal with those under the age of 16 here. If anything happens at all, it's a referral to The Children's Panel or SACRO. (My assailant was referred to SACRO 20 yrs ago. He told them I'd "got in the way". Translation - was desperately trying to keep my stomach away from him. They wanted me to have a "restorative conversation" with him. I refused.)

I can think of one boy who did actually finish up in secure accommodation. He'd set light to a homeless person.

To my mind, the only way to stop the rot is to bring back meaningful consequences. Teenagers - to my mind - just see "Restorative Justice" as a kind of weakness.

I'd also want to see strong penalties for teenagers who film assaults and upload them to social media.

Another problem that I'm seeing here is that when the problem is a chaotic household, social workers are reluctant to remove children from that household: "The best place for them is at home."

I’m so sorry to hear of the awful assault and pregnancy loss you went through.

As an ex-teacher, I completely recognise what you’re saying and have seen it first hand (and it’s partly why I’m an ex-teacher).

One of my colleagues was kicked in the stomach as a TA and miscarried that evening at 12 weeks. The boy who kicked her was the child of an internationally renowned neurosurgeon and a university professor. He was never disciplined and the parents made a complaint about her “victimising” him, threatening legal action, when she refused to work with him. He was severely neglected at home.

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2024 00:29

Plasticstaircase · 03/09/2024 20:27

I honestly think we’re way past the point now in the uk where we can simply blame parents.
There are so so many factors beyond the control of parents. The accessibility of drugs is one. Smartphones is another. Limited youth services and police resources is another.
I have seen so , so many teens fall into horrible situations with drugs, and consequently violence. They weren’t all from broken homes or backgrounds of generational poverty. Most in fact were middle class kids experimenting with vapes and weed in local parks , escalating to buying highly addictive spice laced drugs off men in cars via Snapchat. Usually parents were in desperation and frustrated by lack of support from camhs / gp/ school.
Anyone who thinks this sort of thing is limited to areas of deprivation , or simply a product of poor parenting, is pretty naive.
I remember speaking to a very experienced member of teaching staff, he’d worked in pupil referral units across the country and was tasked with troubleshooting behavioural issues. He had an astounding record for turning lives around for troubled kids, seeing them leave school with brilliant prospects. But he told me that involvement with cannabis was the one problem which was the hardest, as it was next to impossible to ‘get them back’ once they were deeply involved.
And its everywhere now.

I agree with regard to cannabis. I can think of two particular boys whose lives were absolutely blighted by it.

In one case, it was really bright boy whose mum smoked the stuff herself. I managed to get him a basic qualification: he didn't attend school most days, but i persuaded him to come in one day and sit all his internal assessments at one time.

I recall phoning his mum and her saying "Well, you can try speaking to him yourself..."

The other lad definitely had anger management problems. He suddenly became very "mellow". He actually began to work.

His dealer got him onto heroin. The last I heard, he was being used as a rent boy. Yes, everything was passed on to the appropriate authorities, but social work wouldn't act. As for the police...they don't care about cannabis.

My husband and his best friend went to see the police about girls who were being abused after getting high. (The friend's daughter was a victim. This was in the north of Scotland.) They gave the name of the dealer. "Ah, you see - we only want the big fish."

Thebaguette · 04/09/2024 00:26

Auburngal · 03/09/2024 22:37

The victim was a Hindu or Muslim, not Sikh as a photograph released shows a clean shaven man.

There are still many many white people who are racist. They voted for Brexit because of these Asians who many moved to the UK well before 1973. when UK joined the EU (or EEC in those days)

Hindu not Muslim

BlackShuck3 · 04/09/2024 00:23

My mum used to slap me quite a lot (I think that's why I joined the Mafia tbh🤷🏼).

WearyAuldWumman · 04/09/2024 00:21

Plasticstaircase · 03/09/2024 20:06

Difficult isn’t it.
It’s only socially acceptable (it seems here) to name them as a little monster/ evil child/ psychopath after such a heinous crime has been committed. I just wonder how many people would be willing to answer that a child should be ‘put down’ , in answer to a thread where a parent is struggling with their violent teenager?. Likely there’d be outrage and posters would call for the child to be ‘assessed’.

Very often, you'll find that teachers have raised concerns and had them ignored. That's certainly happened to me in the past when I've flagged up clear evidence that intervention was required.

BlackShuck3 · 04/09/2024 00:21

It's too late for national service, we are too far gone down the pathway to failed state.