Misery loves company (New mums)

I was fortunate enough to read about this before I had DS1 and I stayed well away from them.

After three years of infertility I was determined to enjoy my baby. And yes, colic was tough but it became a regular part of every evening and was bearable. And it was over by 12 weeks. He slept for 7 hours every night by 8 weeks. And I had quite a few people saying the negative crap - people I knew and complete strangers! One lady stopped me in Tesco when he was fast asleep in the pram one afternoon and laughed and said ‘someone’s been awake all night!!’ I said no - he sleeps right through and then has a morning and an afternoon nap. I don’t think she believed me.

OP, just respond as seems most appropriate- cheery responses to strangers or people who aren’t currently struggling, and very careful, bland responses for those who are struggling.

All too often people end up asking these questions because the only reason you're all there at these groups is because you have babies, and you have to break through this painful small talk baby chit chat barrier before you find out whether you're actually compatible with someone as a friend. So yeah you ask about how they are sleeping, how they are finding feeding, when their baby was born blah blah. And if you can respond with empathy to whatever comes your way in these probably boring, sometimes upsetting, sometimes very helpful conversations, then you might move to the next stage and become friends with someone. So it's not necessarily that they are deliberately asking a question when they know the answer might upset them, it's because it's one of the few universal baby topics that is easy to throw out there at a stranger you just met at baby massage.

I had a chill baby and a relatively easy sleeper. I was able to say 'ooh yeah I can't complain, but those nights where he's on a mad one are rough aren't they' andI can't remember getting any snidey comments. If anything I found the opposite and a lot of parents were unbearably proud/competitive about how fabulous their baby was.

There are a lot of women who had infertility problems but faced with a difficult baby and do not feel grateful. It doesn’t mitigate the difficulties they experienced but there is this misconception that if you struggled to conceive you have to say how bloody wonderful parenting is. You can be grateful that the baby is here but also say it’s bloody hard work and that you don’t recognise your pre-baby life. Sting she can be as awful as she likes and you’ll be grateful tells me you have an easy baby. That’s great, I’m delighted for you but not every woman has an easy baby and comments like yours make women who have experienced infertility and aren’t coping feel like absolute shit.

Grateful is recognising that everyone’s journey is different and that we all handle difficulties differently. Sometimes one person’s difficulties don’t end after years of infertility, they can find the first few years suffocating and really struggling after longing for so long. You’re coming across as really smug and I can see why it’s getting people’s backs up. You’re getting people’s backs up on this thread and they’ve not even met you in real life. If you want people to stop pissing on your chips, I think you need to realise everyone has a different experience and even if you don’t mean to, you’re coming off as incredibly smug. If you want to keep the conversation going say she’s a good baby at the minute but I’m sure the same won’t be said when she’s a toddler and then try to emphasise. If you don’t want to keep the conversation going then don’t even answer the first question and walk past them.

I do think you’re being a bit premature. My second was a dream until she was about 4 months. Then she stopped sleeping and became well a bit of a handful to put it mildly. She only recently started sleeping more reliably and she’s nearly 4…

Anger and rage can be a symptom of postnatal depression/ anxiety. That might be something to look into.

There's also a lot of pressure (often self-inflicted pressure) on IVF parents to be happy and appreciative all the time. It's ok to be fed up/bored/angry just like any other parent who conceived naturally. Perhaps you are directing some of those feelings outwards.

I thought this too tbh 🤭 all the talk of having "found her feet and confidence being a mum" and enjoying motherhood and a PP saying she's cracked it... as a mother of one 4-month old. It's not even started yet. 😆

But saying that makes me one of the toxic bitchy mums, I suppose?

I think I'm starting to see where the problem is, too. Sorry.

This is tough, I had a baby that slept through and was so placid. When talking to other mums whose babies wouldn't sleep or cried more, I felt like I had to be apologetic for my "easy" baby. That or find something that I wasn't enjoying about motherhood to share with the group.

It's different for me now she's a toddler as I actually do struggle with this stage! But I would never resent another mum if their toddler didn't tantrum (I might be jealous but on the inside 😂)

You sound more hard work than the women you're so aggrieved at.

Your baby is just 4 months old, so I really wouldn't be drawing any conclusions on you or anyone's babies, or mothering abilities, just yet

All babies are a gift. Doesn’t mean that it can’t be tough. it can be tough for a variety of reasons, some empathy wouldn’t go amiss.

You do sound smug, and angry. That might not be your intention, but that’s how it comes across.

The way you write comes across as smug and contemptuous towards Mums who are struggling. ‘Salty as fuck’?? I mean to say that about someone indicates that they’ve been really off with you? They can’t possibly be that off with you just because you’ve said your baby sleeps. I’m sure it’s not your aim but I can see why you may be putting their back up.

The few months PP, many women’s mental health is at rock bottom. They are asking you the question because they’re hoping for some empathy. You may be lacking this so I suggest you just smile and say ‘not too bad’ and change the subject. Plenty of other things you can talk about.

Oh and all babies are gifts, regardless of how they were conceived.

Just enjoy it and ignore others around you. I've just had DC2 after six years of fertility treatment and 6 rounds of IVF. There's a real difference in how I cope with this baby compared to DC1. Last time, I barely left the sofa for the first 6 weeks because I was just exhausted. DC1 didn't sleep and breastfeeding was painful and just utterly horrible. We supplemented with bottles but that didn't make my nipples heal any faster or the ensured that the baby slept for more than 20 minutes at a time.

This time round, I was out and about again straight away. DH left us just before DC2 was born, so my stress levels were quite high from the start and the staff at the hospital made sure I was able to leave before the person looking after DC1 went on holiday.
I made sure to sit and relax a lot in the first few weeks, though and DC1 is luckily old enough to not need constant supervision. The weather helped and I just sat outside a lot. DC2 naps in the garden, which helps with sleep as well (DC1 was a December baby). I've had my midwife come round regularly to check up on the baby and support us where needed.
I'm honest about it when people ask. Not in a boastful way but more that luckily, DC2 is a much easier baby for now. That might still change. I haven't had anyone be jealous about it, possibly because most people I know also know about the situation with DH. Breastfeeding is working much better this time round and as an older mum, I get much less stressy about things than I did first time round.
Just enjoy. :) You might get a really tricky toddler...

Agreed, I conceived whilst on birth control and we discussed whether we wished to even proceed with the pregnancy, I would never mention this to anyone in real life, let alone those struggling. If someone asked I'd say similar to you.

People who are struggling can also, and invariably are, grateful too, such an odd view and comment.

I can relate, in that I had an easy baby who was a good sleeper. I can relate, in that my precious baby was born after many years of infertility, IVF, etc. I can relate, in that other new mums seemed often more stressed and tired and finding difficult than I was (in that particular stage). And that all we spoke about was sleep, and how careful those conversations were.

What I can't relate to, is considering those other mums miserable or angry at me, or resenting them for bringing up the topic of sleep even though it's delicate and causing them great difficulty.

I wonder if you're projecting a bit here, OP. I think you're anticipating them being angry, which is making you defensive. I think this possibly comes a lot down to this:

Actually I don't bring up babies or children at all because I don't like the toxic mummy culture and try to steer the conversation to other things but I can't seem to get away from it.

I've no idea what the 'toxic mummy culture' is and have never experienced it. I adore being a mum, being friends with other mums, and relating to them on the topic of motherhood. I find mum groups and circles to be full of empathy, support, humour and kindness.

I think you have a lot of pain and resentment from what you've been through and maybe need to look at that. You don't want to go through these special years full of resentment and prickliness at other mums. It would be such a waste.

I'm obviously here to vent and using caps because I can't find the italics and to break up the writing to make it clear what I am saying at what other people are saying

Well that’s not true because you’ve used caps for your own words and the other women’s words. E.g. ‘the women my age are SALTY AS FUCK’ and ‘WELL FUCK YOU’ and ‘WELL YOUR BABY SLEEPS SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ITS REALLY LIKE or YOU HAVE AN EASY BABY SO YOU DON'T GET IT ’

On a similar note, I conceived both my babies first time. For my first, it was the first month I used an OPK to make sure I knew when I was ovulating, had sex accordingly job done. My second baby was conceived the first cycle after my periods returned after baby #1, and we had sex literally one time that month.

You would not be able to waterboard that info out of me in front of other mums. And I have had people ask how my TTC journey was - my answer is always "we got on alright with it luckily". Because imo, if people are asking you about something it's very often because they're struggling/struggled with that topic themselves. I would be absolutely mortified to tell someone how easy I had XYZ for them then to reveal they were really struggling with it.

Ditto with the fact that my pregnancies and births were really, really easy. No one WANTS me to have had a bad time, but they also don't want to hear about my easy breezy life when they're struggling with coming to terms with a difficult birth or pregnancy.

OP is the issue not that you don't care about these women and don't see them as your comrades? You said you don't care about their kids sleep or feeding problems you only want to hear happy things about the babies. To me this says you don't care about the mothers as people at all. That's fine, but I'm not sure a mothers group is necessarily what you need in that case.

The thing is OP, they're right. You dont have any idea how tough it can be. It's great that you're loving life, and your baby sleeps through and is easy. But you must realise that not everybody is so fortunate?

You are lucky to have such as easy baby.

You may not intend it or realise it, but that does read as smug. It's important that you realise that those other mums love their babies just as much as you, their babies are just as precious if they were conceived the first month as if they took a decade.

The love doesn't change the fact that it's bloody hard. Those women are demonstrating such incredible love for their children, running themselves into the ground, picking the baby up again when they woke 42 minutes after they were put down at 2am. It's ok to have a wee moan about it being hard.

No, they shouldn't. But they do, which means the issue has become your problem regardless of whether it should be. And this is why the answer to your question about what you should say when asked is to downplay what a good sleeper the baby is.

I think we are beginning to understand what the problem is in this scenario

Because when you're at home with a baby who refuses to sleep, those baby classes are the most likely place to meet people in the same shitty boat.

I've reread your OP and it doesn't even read like they're actually saying anything rude or in an angry way.

My first five months with my eldest were stupidly sleep deprived. I honestly thought I might die, I was so unwell with exhaustion and felt so terrible about myself. Then at 5 months I gave in and started cosleeping and life has been bliss since then.

When I had my second, I can honestly say it was easy and perfect from day 1, and I love being a mum to small children.

However, I'm very glad that my experience of the first five months with my eldest taught me to be humble. Some of my mum friends are still having multiple wake ups every night 18 months in. A close friend of mine had a spell a few months ago where her just over 1yo was up every single hour wanting to BF.

I've had friends, some I don't even know that well, crying to me over how terribly exhausted they feel, how they feel they're doing everything badly, their mental health is suffering, all the rest of it

Do you think I tell them how I'm having a fab time and everything is hunky dory in my household? Do I tell them that my youngest did 6 hour stretches from 5 weeks old, and both my children have been doing 12 hour uninterrupted sleeps extremely reliably from 6 months old? No!!!

Obviously I don't lie and pretend I'm sleep deprived too. But all they ever need to know is my children's sleep is "not too bad, thanks"

"Misery loves company" feels an unkind way to describe my friends, who are wonderful people. They don't want other people to be miserable, they're just having a hard time and likely feeling (misplaced) guilt for feeling so low during a time they will never get back with their child.