AIBU in expecting my teen boys to have tidy rooms

As in the OP

I've reread their posts and you're right, it does come across a bit "I'm a man and will happily tell you what I do and that everything else is wrong"

Good spot!

Is this a mansplaining thread? It's all a bit 'Man here'

I have a lovely teenager. She is honestly a joy. Her room is pretty much a mess most of the time. It's mostly clean clothes all over the place and craft stuff that she's making. She tidies eventually and badly if I ask her to put some clothes away but seems to get messy again before you know it. I tend to shut the door and not think about it. The rest of the house is clean and tidy and she's great if I ask her to clean out a cupboard. I'd rather have a happy teen than lots of conflict.

I agree with you OP, and the same should apply were it young women. Not just to consider the cleaner.

You seem very rigid in your thinking, OP.

For what it is worth, i had a messy room as a teen (and still do now, on occasion) and got straights As at school and now have a demanding professional role.

People (teens included) are more nuanced than you give them credit for.

And a bedroom is absolutely a private space.

Agree. It’s really mean and not healthy. A power thing I’d say.

It all sounds a bit uptight and joyless to me.

I like a tidy home, that's my preference, but when my DDs were teens what they did in their rooms was up to them. That was their personal space. Obv if the rooms got revolting or unhygienic I would step in but I never expected show home tidiness/cleanliness.

We never had Slob Phases. They could eat in their rooms, but just took the plates etc out after and put in the dishwasher. Dirty clothes in laundry basket as they would want them washed. I don’t think we’ve ever discussed it tbh.

Are people on here actually saying that if their bedroom door was wide open their kids aren't allowed to walk in without permission each time? And they are calling the OP controlling? Wow. My kids are welcome anywhere in their home, if the door is closed they knock, if their door is closed we knock.

Too me your whole room regime feels a bit controlled.

A room is like giving the teen the chance to experiment with their own bit of house.

They can keep it like a filthy pit - and learn there are consequences to that.

Or they can keep it nice. And learn there are consequences of that too.

I suspect the best way of getting a teen to keep the room tidy is just wait until they get a boyfriend, girlfriend and at that point they will be too embarrassed to have a room that is a despicable pit. Probably.

I just don’t believe that there is any joy in a messy room. I think rooms are messy (or worse) because teens just haven’t got into the habit of keeping them tidy. I think everyone is happier walking into a tidy room and knowing where all their favourite things are.

This just shows your complete lack of empathy, or understanding that people are different, and not everyone wants to live in a showroom.

I think everyone is happier walking into a tidy room and knowing where all their favourite things are.

Shall we do a straw poll as to how many adults quite like living in messy (not dirty) rooms?

You're imposing your view on your teens. Having rules like this makes sense with small children. When your children are teenagers you can impose rules with points "If you leave food around it will go mouldy and we may get maggots" but not rules that you just think are a good idea "I think people are happier in tidy rooms, so you must keep your happy". Even better is to impose guidelines with choices "you can keep your room tidy so the cleaner can get in, or you can clean it yourself".

If your bedroom door is always open and anyone can walk in then you have to keep everything you don't want to be on public display hidden away at all times.

If your bedroom is considered to be somewhere that anyone can come in unless you close the door, then you have to keep things hidden away very well (or kept outside the house) as you can't be sure that your things are kept private.

If your child knows you never go in their room without their permission then they have actual privacy for themselves and their belongings.

For what it's worth, I've never understood the phone privacy anyway, but maybe I just had tech savvy teens who would have had the nous to delete anything they didn't want me to see (a bit like hiding away belongings really). I don't think insisting things have to be open makes them more open. I think it just makes people better at hiding things.

If their door is open that's not private. If it's closed that's private. Why would anyone think anything other?

Were you or their Dad in the military?
You sound very controlling.

There is a huge scale between "neglect and damage" and "perfectly tidy and not considered to be a private space" though and yes I think you are too far to one side of it.

Completely reasonable for a room to be clean to avoid hygiene issues and to be clear enough for the cleaner to stick the hoover over and wipe surfaces down but the rest is excessive and yes sounds a bit joyless and authoritative tbh. The fact you have to specify that they are "allowed" to have posters up as if its some sort of generous reward for a well behaving employee rather than a bog standard expectation for a teen room says it all....and I bet you have control over what posters they choose as well....can't imagine you want your precious guests catching sight of a sexy glamour model or poster with...gasp, shock, explicit wording as they walk past the enforced open celldoors

This post by @Octavia64 is spot on.

I suspect most of us have thought it with our newborns or toddlers "He's such a good eater because I've never made a fuss about food and he's expected to eat what is put in front of him" until dc2 comes along and is completely the opposite. Insert sleep, behaviour, language development, confidence or whatever you like in there.

The thing is, most of us have realised long before the child becomes a teen, that there is a huge element of luck in getting the child you have, and aren't so smug as to start a thread implying that a teen going through a pretty standard phase of having a messy room is because we haven't parented to your high standards.

It is a discussion board.

It is unnecessarily confrontational to moan about a thread. If you think I am smug, just don’t bother to post.

These 2 sentences seem a bit contradictory @Newbutoldfather .

Do you think this is a discussion board, or do you think that only people who think you are wonderful should be allowed to post ?

When my children were that age they were responsible for their rooms. If they were happy living in a tip where they couldn't find anything that was on them. I think that was much better than demanding they keep their room s tidy and withholding money if they didn't. They learned to take responsibility for their own actions and make their own decisions.
They are both in their thirties now both fairly tidy and very responsible.

My disabled son, 13, has had sessions with a neuro child psychologist who has some fascinating insights into the teenage brain. She explained about how childrens’ brains, until puberty, act like sponges, absorbing everything creating neural pathways, constantly developing. But then as they mature they start to refine & sift out lots of unnecessary stuff they just don’t need & this process is hard work for the brain. For a child having to navigate life with a physical disability this is harder still, so they don’t need to be overwhelmed by parents demanding they tidy their room constantly. They will get there in the end! Just thought I’d share that (PS just to add my son’s disability does not prevent him picking up stuff & being tidy, he’s just generally a shambles)

Don't care if IABU, I expect basic hygiene and baseline tidiness and am still disappointed and stop buying his favourite food when I don't get it 🤷

I think its fine to insist on having tidy bedrooms. I think its very controlling to dictate that only water can be consumed in bedrooms, rather than having rules about returning plates to the dishwasher. I don't think it probably does much to encourage independence.

But they are private spaces, and everyone is entitled to some privacy.