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She should be provided with an alternative education

164 replies

mychilddeservesaneducation · 02/09/2024 16:24

(NC in case this is outing with links to previous posts).

DD is about to start year 10. Due to trauma relating to bullying, she's been refusing school for almost a year (she has panic attacks and can't cope with being in lessons / corridors / assembly halls etc). When this first started, we asked the school to consider allowing her to work in a small room or something but they refused. It's normal timetable or punishment for 'truancy' (even if she's in school they count it as 'internal truancy' if she doesn't turn up to a lesson, which happened frequently as she was hiding in the toilets crying as she was too scared to go in).

She's basically had no education since almost this time last year, except a few workbooks at home that we've bought. School won't set work if she's not in school, they won't offer small group teaching if she is in school and for the last term, we stopped sending her in as the stress and punishments were making her severe anxiety worse. Their line is she needs to be in school and in lessons and if she's not, it's an unauthorised absence. We've been threatened with court for her poor attendance.

We've had limited support from an attendance key-worker and have tried a phased return to school a few times but failed as she just panics. The GP hasn't been able to help much and CAHMS refused a referral request. We've paid for some private counselling but can't afford to continue.

After so long, should the school (or council?) not be offering an alternative education for her like online tutoring or pupil referral unit (not sure if this is appropriate to her needs)? The school will just not help at all. We cannot afford online schooling and DH and I have to work full time to pay the bills, so home Ed would be difficult too. I'm so stuck as to where to turn and any advice will be much appreciated.

OP posts:
Chrsytalchondalier · 05/09/2024 02:49

ThisHangryPinkBalonz · 05/09/2024 02:46

I think you are being unreasonable, only because its a different school, doesn't mean she will suddenly start socialising with other children, she's obviously got trauma.

It's like saying if you have a serious accident in a car, just get a new one and crack on! That's not how it works.

I'm not saying she doesn't, but this way she's got no chance of trying to rebuild and make friends and the longer it goes on the worse it will be

ThisHangryPinkBalonz · 05/09/2024 02:46

Chrsytalchondalier · 05/09/2024 02:25

Not to be harsh, but I can't believe your daughter has now missed out on school for a year, stop wasting time and just change her school. A half hour commute isn't that bad. Given all her issues, home-schooling etc will probably make her anxiety worse. She should be socialising with other children her age. How is she going to cope as an adult if she is isolated from other people? Don't get me wrong it's terrible she has been bullied, but all this stress and dragging things out is probably not helping her or you to move on

I think you are being unreasonable, only because its a different school, doesn't mean she will suddenly start socialising with other children, she's obviously got trauma.

It's like saying if you have a serious accident in a car, just get a new one and crack on! That's not how it works.

ThisHangryPinkBalonz · 05/09/2024 02:43

Not much advice OP but this must be incredibly stressful for you and your daughter.

If I was in that situation, I would probably take her out of school and let her self educate with the huge resources available online / books. She's obviously not going to learn at school if the poor girl is constantly in the toilets upset.

Only issue would be paying for her gcses.

I hope your LA get their shit together and the school sounds absolutely terrible.

Zoflorabore · 05/09/2024 02:29

Place marking for the morning op as I’m exhausted but going through very similar with dd (year 9)

Chrsytalchondalier · 05/09/2024 02:25

Not to be harsh, but I can't believe your daughter has now missed out on school for a year, stop wasting time and just change her school. A half hour commute isn't that bad. Given all her issues, home-schooling etc will probably make her anxiety worse. She should be socialising with other children her age. How is she going to cope as an adult if she is isolated from other people? Don't get me wrong it's terrible she has been bullied, but all this stress and dragging things out is probably not helping her or you to move on

giggly · 05/09/2024 00:19

CrochetForLife · 03/09/2024 03:33

Wow. You really have no idea. Read OPs posts. It's clear there is more than anxiety going on with this poor girl. And, as OP herself has said, two other children in the same situation at the school have committed suicide.

You don't think any of this warrants the OP pushing harder in that direction, to get whatever help she can? Just going with 'anxiety' is doing nothing at all whatsoever ever at the moment, is it? What solutions do you have, then? Lets hear them!

I was questioning your ability to make a sweeping statement about a child’s mental health without assessing them. So perhaps the “ wow” should be redirected to yourself. The op state wher child has anxiety , has experienced bullying but nowhere does she state her child has suicidal thoughts. What she did say was two other children had suicided. We have absolutely no idea what attributed in those cases.
mots a huge jump from school refusal and anxiety to suicide.
In answer to your question about what I would suggest, as a very experienced mental health clinician I offer no direct advice on a child I have not assessed and neither should you. You very unhelpfully diagnosed this child with other conditions.
I did not suggest she done nothing as you put it.
You have escalated a situation you have only been given little bits of information on.
would you really take advice from total strangers on the internet?

Makingchocolatecake · 03/09/2024 22:41

Coming from a teacher, this school sounds terrible. They should have pastoral people who can work with her, part time timetable to phase her back in, or let her work in learning support with work from teachers. Can she move schools, not alternative provision, just a nicer mainstream!

mychilddeservesaneducation · 03/09/2024 19:28

PoshTosh · 03/09/2024 17:46

Op what did the LA say. Too often school try to wiggle out of their responsibilities

They'll respond in due course (I think legally that should be within 5 days).

OP posts:
PoshTosh · 03/09/2024 17:46

Op what did the LA say. Too often school try to wiggle out of their responsibilities

Justwanttosleep2 · 03/09/2024 11:29

Perhaps you are replying to someone else @Blueybanditbingochilli as I haven’t written anything about ‘no harm.’ I work in this area and know of what I speak. You can take a look at some of the recent research if you need to.

@mychilddeservesaneducation I am glad you’re feeling energised and have your pointy elbows ready! Very best of luck to you and your DD. Smile

Elleherd · 03/09/2024 11:13

You've had lots of good advice, but given the length of time this has been ongoing, and the effects on her education, and the evidence build up you have, and that she has a diagnosis: alongside sharpening your elbows and dealing with the LA, I would suggest taking on the hell that is a DLA application for her. There is a clear need and a clear set of things that financial support could help alleviate.

It should not be the case that someone should be bullied to the point their mental health is so badly affected they can no longer access their education, but that is where she is.

It's painful and time consuming, and another battle, and you may not be successful, but if you are, it will at least give you some sort of an education/MH budget towards trying to help her while all the rest is ongoing.

mychilddeservesaneducation · 03/09/2024 10:32

Thank you so much to everyone who has taken time to respond. I'm so sorry for those of you who are also experiencing the same. It's shit.
I cannot thank you enough for all the help you've given me here and for pointing me in the direction of where to seek further help. I have been in touch with our LA today and hopefully this will be the start of a new beginning for DD. Although I'm under no illusion that this will be straightforward to achieve, I have my pointy elbows ready and willing!
Thank you again.

OP posts:
EndlessLight · 03/09/2024 10:00

The specific legislation covering alternative provision providing a suitable, full-time education for those unable to attend school (whether that is for SEN related reasons where DC meet the definition of having SEN set out in section 20 of the Children and Families Act 2014 or not) is still section 19 of the Education Act 1996. If you look at IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites you would see this.

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 03/09/2024 09:55

But the right to an education that meets needs for a child coming within the s20 Children and Families Act 2014 definition of SEN - which OP's child does - is the CFA.

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 09:54

Justwanttosleep2 · 03/09/2024 08:39

Yes…? It’s still worth putting an EHCNA in. Clear SEMH needs with the anxiety. Cognition and learning needs due to missed learning so there will now be knowledge gaps. As a couple of posters have mentioned, there may be needs in the area of communication and interaction if she is autistic. (Remember there is - also - a huge overlap between female teens diagnosed with anxiety and autism.) Finally, OP will be able to consider if there are any physical and sensory needs.

OP should certainly submit for an EHCNA; the more info that can be listed under each of the four areas the better.

Edited

Because (honestly I’m not exaggerating) every emotional distress on here is met with an instant assumption the person being discussed is autistic despite only 1 very tenuous symptom for which there is a good reason (in this case bullying). Saying there’s ’no harm’ in just having her assessed anyway isn’t true - she’ll be added to a list which has increased by 700% because of this sort of thinking, while simultaneously wondering ‘why the system is so broken and waiting lists so long’.

EndlessLight · 03/09/2024 09:49

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 03/09/2024 09:45

The relevant Act now is the Children and Families Act, but it's probably better to look at all the information on the IPSEA and SOS SEN websites.

The legislation covering education alternative provision for CSA pupils unable to attend school is still section 19 of the Education Act 1996. As you will see if you look at IPSEA’s website and model letters.

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 03/09/2024 09:45

Swingsandslides · 03/09/2024 08:41

Exact same situation here. It’s so awful. You have to know your rights. Check out the education act. Child has a right to an education that meets their needs. Then contact your local MP, cc’ing in local councillors (ask around locally and find out which councillors are active, pushy and useful). Get them on side to fight for an education for your child.

My MP was horrified that such a situation existed and was very helpful.

Good luck

The relevant Act now is the Children and Families Act, but it's probably better to look at all the information on the IPSEA and SOS SEN websites.

Swingsandslides · 03/09/2024 08:41

Exact same situation here. It’s so awful. You have to know your rights. Check out the education act. Child has a right to an education that meets their needs. Then contact your local MP, cc’ing in local councillors (ask around locally and find out which councillors are active, pushy and useful). Get them on side to fight for an education for your child.

My MP was horrified that such a situation existed and was very helpful.

Good luck

Justwanttosleep2 · 03/09/2024 08:39

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 08:37

She’s anxious because she was bullied.

Yes…? It’s still worth putting an EHCNA in. Clear SEMH needs with the anxiety. Cognition and learning needs due to missed learning so there will now be knowledge gaps. As a couple of posters have mentioned, there may be needs in the area of communication and interaction if she is autistic. (Remember there is - also - a huge overlap between female teens diagnosed with anxiety and autism.) Finally, OP will be able to consider if there are any physical and sensory needs.

OP should certainly submit for an EHCNA; the more info that can be listed under each of the four areas the better.

EndlessLight · 03/09/2024 08:38

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but many are not and repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

My understanding from them is that the LA need to provide alternative after 15 days absence.

The 15 days (that can be cumulative) don’t need to have already been missed. The LA should provide provision as soon as it becomes clear 15 days will be missed and the provision should begin by the sixth day of absence.

OP’s child doesn’t have special needs

Anxiety to the level OP is talking about are SEMH needs and meet the legal definition of SEN.

@Theunhappiestchild could DD cope with more than 7 hours in any form (doesn’t have to be traditional academic education)? If so, the LA should be providing more. 7hrs is not full time and the LA knows this. Email the LA.

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 08:37

Justwanttosleep2 · 03/09/2024 08:33

She has a diagnosis (from the GP) of anxiety. The school said this was insufficient for her to access any SEND type support.

This isn’t true and it goes against the SEN Code of Practice.

As others have said, submit a parental request for an EHCNA.

Also, there is a huge overlap between girls who present with EBSNA (emotionally based school non attendance) and autism. Would you consider having her assessed?

She’s anxious because she was bullied.

Justwanttosleep2 · 03/09/2024 08:33

She has a diagnosis (from the GP) of anxiety. The school said this was insufficient for her to access any SEND type support.

This isn’t true and it goes against the SEN Code of Practice.

As others have said, submit a parental request for an EHCNA.

Also, there is a huge overlap between girls who present with EBSNA (emotionally based school non attendance) and autism. Would you consider having her assessed?

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 08:20

Chrsytalchondalier · 03/09/2024 07:54

Please don't try drugs before you've tried a viable option like moving. Half an hour isn't that far when the stakes are this high

Well yes I agree. But it’s worth trying if everything else fails as frankly it works and can be life changing.

longestlurkerever · 03/09/2024 07:58

RedWinePoliticsAndHair · 03/09/2024 01:42

Why did CAMHS refuse referral? I'm a SENDCO and that's highly unusual. I don't think ever had one refused. Did they give you a reason @mychilddeservesaneducation ?

Gosh you must live in a well resourced borough. The bar for acceptance here is very high. If they thought the cause of anxiety was environmental (bullying) they'd expect that to be addressed rather than treating it as a mental health issue.

Chrsytalchondalier · 03/09/2024 07:54

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 07:44

There aren’t even SEN places for SEN children. OP’s child doesn’t have special needs. This sudden clamour for SEN places for children who have emotional upset is overburdening the system and deeply unfair on children who aren’t actually capable of learning the regular curriculum.

There are over 800,000 children currently missing school for non medical reasons. There is zero hope of providing them all with the level of service expected on here because there are so many of them now and there are no resources to do it. Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything.

I would suggest OP pursues the mental health route to get her daughter back to school. Can you afford private therapy? Can she change schools if you move house? Has she tried sertraline?

Please don't try drugs before you've tried a viable option like moving. Half an hour isn't that far when the stakes are this high

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