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She should be provided with an alternative education

164 replies

mychilddeservesaneducation · 02/09/2024 16:24

(NC in case this is outing with links to previous posts).

DD is about to start year 10. Due to trauma relating to bullying, she's been refusing school for almost a year (she has panic attacks and can't cope with being in lessons / corridors / assembly halls etc). When this first started, we asked the school to consider allowing her to work in a small room or something but they refused. It's normal timetable or punishment for 'truancy' (even if she's in school they count it as 'internal truancy' if she doesn't turn up to a lesson, which happened frequently as she was hiding in the toilets crying as she was too scared to go in).

She's basically had no education since almost this time last year, except a few workbooks at home that we've bought. School won't set work if she's not in school, they won't offer small group teaching if she is in school and for the last term, we stopped sending her in as the stress and punishments were making her severe anxiety worse. Their line is she needs to be in school and in lessons and if she's not, it's an unauthorised absence. We've been threatened with court for her poor attendance.

We've had limited support from an attendance key-worker and have tried a phased return to school a few times but failed as she just panics. The GP hasn't been able to help much and CAHMS refused a referral request. We've paid for some private counselling but can't afford to continue.

After so long, should the school (or council?) not be offering an alternative education for her like online tutoring or pupil referral unit (not sure if this is appropriate to her needs)? The school will just not help at all. We cannot afford online schooling and DH and I have to work full time to pay the bills, so home Ed would be difficult too. I'm so stuck as to where to turn and any advice will be much appreciated.

OP posts:
EndlessLight · 05/09/2024 15:28

4.8% of all pupils in England had an EHCP in 23/24 (at the time of the annual census anyway). To give historical context, this has increased from 3.7% in 20/21, 2.9% in 17/18 and 2.8% in 14/15 (when looking at EHCPs & Statements of SEN).

Transport isn’t limited to those with ASD &/or in a special school. Neither are EHCPs or section 19 provision, both of which can include online provision.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 05/09/2024 14:53

Morph22010 · 05/09/2024 07:43

My autistic child is at an autism school 10 miles away that I drive him too and get paid transport budget by the council so I’m one of the people on your post that’s helping my council go bankrupt. I would absolutely love him to be going to the local mainstream, I drive past kids his age walking on their own to school whereas I’m having to do a 20 mile round trip before even starting my commute to work. He is mainstream academic level and started off in mainstream, I’d have loved him still be to there now but it just didn’t work.

The OP's daughter is not autistic, however, and does not need a special school. She needs another school to the one she is at, or an online school. My point is that the parents should be exhausting all the other options here before going in and threatening the Powers that Be.

Phineyj · 05/09/2024 14:27

The number of students with an EHCP is teeny. Less than 5%. Yes numbers of EHCPs have increased but overall something like 4% of the school population had them 10 years ago and now it's 5%.

@endless has the exact figures I'm sure.

Schools do NOT have a deluge of students with EHCP.

EndlessLight · 05/09/2024 13:14

that frankly makes them unenforceable.

No, it doesn’t. Enforcing provision is successful.

The reasons for EHCP used to be serious disability, now emotional distress will do it.

The legal threshold for an EHCNA and an EHCP has not changed. DC with SEMH needs (and BESD/EBD before the switch to SEMH) have always been able to qualify for an EHCP (and statement of SEN before that) if they meet the legal threshold.

Parents enforcing their DC’s rights are not at fault for the system being as it is anymore than women who have been raped who report it to the police are responsible for the low conviction rate in the broken system. (Not that those who don’t report are to blame either, my point was more about comparing reporting unlawfulness/illegal activities and trying to pursue justice.)

Blueybanditbingochilli · 05/09/2024 12:29

EndlessLight · 05/09/2024 09:52

Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything.

It isn’t a knee jerk reaction. It is the process to enforce the child’s legal rights. Often LAs don’t take notice of parents until they threaten or then take enforcement action. Few actually get to JR proceedings themselves. LAs often concede before then because they know they are acting unlawfully. It is the course of action recommended by SOSSEN, a leading charity supporting parents with SEN matters.

But when they made it the case that a child has these legal rights, they didn’t foresee the explosive rise in parents enforcing them that frankly makes them unenforceable. The reasons for EHCP used to be serious disability, now emotional distress will do it. You’re breaking the system then complaining it’s broken.

Thatmissingsock · 05/09/2024 12:23

Blueybanditbingochilli · 03/09/2024 09:54

Because (honestly I’m not exaggerating) every emotional distress on here is met with an instant assumption the person being discussed is autistic despite only 1 very tenuous symptom for which there is a good reason (in this case bullying). Saying there’s ’no harm’ in just having her assessed anyway isn’t true - she’ll be added to a list which has increased by 700% because of this sort of thinking, while simultaneously wondering ‘why the system is so broken and waiting lists so long’.

Massively this. Why do mnetters now think every upset or worry is autism?!
OP's daughter was being bullied, its natural that yes this will have caused her to feel anxious. The way to sort this issue is stop the bullying. Ideally the school should be doing that but in this case they aren't, so surely the next step is to attempt to move schools, not try and secure an autism diagnosis, EHCP and Sertraline?!

EndlessLight · 05/09/2024 09:52

Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything.

It isn’t a knee jerk reaction. It is the process to enforce the child’s legal rights. Often LAs don’t take notice of parents until they threaten or then take enforcement action. Few actually get to JR proceedings themselves. LAs often concede before then because they know they are acting unlawfully. It is the course of action recommended by SOSSEN, a leading charity supporting parents with SEN matters.

MountUnpleasant · 05/09/2024 08:34

Morph22010 · 05/09/2024 07:43

My autistic child is at an autism school 10 miles away that I drive him too and get paid transport budget by the council so I’m one of the people on your post that’s helping my council go bankrupt. I would absolutely love him to be going to the local mainstream, I drive past kids his age walking on their own to school whereas I’m having to do a 20 mile round trip before even starting my commute to work. He is mainstream academic level and started off in mainstream, I’d have loved him still be to there now but it just didn’t work.

Maybe the bullies should take responsibility in this case. If they hadn't been cunts, the little girl wouldn't be needing to find an alternative.

MountUnpleasant · 05/09/2024 08:31

Not schooling advice, but could you afford urgent EMDR therapy for her trauma?

Sheeparelooseagain · 05/09/2024 08:27

Although the reality is that there are very few judicial reviews or even pre action letters sent. One LA complained that it was getting a "flood" of these when in fact it had zero of either that year.

Sheeparelooseagain · 05/09/2024 08:21

"Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything. "

It is the only thing councils will listen to. Ds is 17, is severely autistic and has needs so complex he requires 3:1 professional support. Currently he is home with me providing all care and education and the LA are providing nothing. No school on his EHCP and no out of school provision. The LA won't communicate with us. Hopefully the imminent judicial review will do something.

Snowpaw · 05/09/2024 08:17

What advice has the counsellor given so far? Has she discussed what she thinks the root of the problem is? Is it CBT based? I'd try and seek CBT rather than just standard counselling if possible.

PlumSnail · 05/09/2024 08:12

@mychilddeservesaneducation if you want some online lessons as a temporary measure, Oak Academy is free.

https://www.thenational.academy/pupils/years

Oak National Academy

Year listing | Oak National Academy

Listing of all years in the curriculum.

https://www.thenational.academy/pupils/years

Morph22010 · 05/09/2024 07:43

GreenTeaLikesMe · 05/09/2024 03:25

There are over 800,000 children currently missing school for non medical reasons. There is zero hope of providing them all with the level of service expected on here because there are so many of them now and there are no resources to do it. Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything.

Agree. And a lot of the responses to threads like this are an indicator as to why we have councils literally going bankrupt - school transport for kids with tricky needs in rural areas has been cited as one of the biggest factors behind this.

The OP needs to facilitate some sort of schooling here - either move, or find a way to drive her daughter to another school (which might mean one parent has to talk with work and find a way to accommodate this), or find a way to finance online schooling (which might mean downsizing something, selling something, taking on extra weekend work). Her daughter needs to be in school of some kind, and it’s already been a year.

My autistic child is at an autism school 10 miles away that I drive him too and get paid transport budget by the council so I’m one of the people on your post that’s helping my council go bankrupt. I would absolutely love him to be going to the local mainstream, I drive past kids his age walking on their own to school whereas I’m having to do a 20 mile round trip before even starting my commute to work. He is mainstream academic level and started off in mainstream, I’d have loved him still be to there now but it just didn’t work.

Morph22010 · 05/09/2024 07:23

Barrenfieldoffucks · 02/09/2024 17:44

Have you considered home educating? I mean, without online high schools.

Not that you should have to obviously.

Who educates her though if she not doing online and presumably op can’t afford to pay for tutors either?

Maireadh · 05/09/2024 07:11

It’s very clear that the school is terrible and isn’t going to support your child. You can’t continue sending her in if she’s that traumatised by bullying. You said there are no other schools in your area and you can’t afford transport, so it sounds like home schooling is your only choice.

Kings Interhigh is £6000 a year. You might have to get credit card debt or get a personal loan or remortgage to pay for it for two years. You might have to switch jobs and work from home so you can be there to motivate your child to engage with school.

Alternatively you may find that taxis to another school will work out cheaper once you factor in not having to change jobs.

What you can’t do is just sit there letting your child have no schooling, because basically you want someone else to sort it out and pay for it. Yes I know they’re supposed to, but they aren’t and won’t.

Igmum · 05/09/2024 07:01

Try writing to your MP, the Director of Education, your local councillors and anyone else who could intercede on her behalf. Your daughter has a legal right to an education and the school has failed spectacularly in their duty of care. They need to have clear plans to safeguard her or the LEA needs to offer alternative provision.

mychilddeservesaneducation · 05/09/2024 06:36

Kittybluecat · 05/09/2024 04:13

I dont think you've been very proactive to be honest in supporting your daughter so why should the school bother?
Did you consider a private tutor, home schooling? Therapy at least?

Edited

Not everyone can afford those things, unfortunately. I've already explained that we don't have the finances for private tutors, online school etc. DH and I have to work full time to pay the bills so unstructured home education would be a last resort as DD would be home alone each day and I'm not sure she'd be motivated enough to do her work.
We are paying for a private counsellor and just about manage to afford this with some sacrifices.
We literally have the tiniest amount of disposable income once the bills are paid each month. Not everyone on Mumsnet is well off.

OP posts:
mychilddeservesaneducation · 05/09/2024 06:29

RedHelenB · 05/09/2024 05:45

Can't your GP refer to CAMHs if your dd is having suicidal thoughts?

My DD is not having suicidal thoughts. She was been referred to CAMHS but the referral was rejected (they're completely overwhelmed and so I believe are only able to take on the most serious cases).

OP posts:
AnOldCynic · 05/09/2024 06:13

@mychilddeservesaneducation have a read of these documents about what school should be doing to support you. I'm sorry for you and your DD that they are being so shit.

hsm.manchester.gov.uk/kb5/manchester/directory/advice.page?id=17Mj5WlOnyE

RedHelenB · 05/09/2024 05:45

Can't your GP refer to CAMHs if your dd is having suicidal thoughts?

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 05/09/2024 05:08

Have you explored where there are any bursaries for kids with MH issues from families on low income? Or compassionate grounds?

Any grants available? - not just LA - any private grants - as in people have left funds after death for the benefit of young people in the area (or some such)

Kittybluecat · 05/09/2024 04:13

I dont think you've been very proactive to be honest in supporting your daughter so why should the school bother?
Did you consider a private tutor, home schooling? Therapy at least?

CrochetForLife · 05/09/2024 03:42

giggly · 05/09/2024 00:19

I was questioning your ability to make a sweeping statement about a child’s mental health without assessing them. So perhaps the “ wow” should be redirected to yourself. The op state wher child has anxiety , has experienced bullying but nowhere does she state her child has suicidal thoughts. What she did say was two other children had suicided. We have absolutely no idea what attributed in those cases.
mots a huge jump from school refusal and anxiety to suicide.
In answer to your question about what I would suggest, as a very experienced mental health clinician I offer no direct advice on a child I have not assessed and neither should you. You very unhelpfully diagnosed this child with other conditions.
I did not suggest she done nothing as you put it.
You have escalated a situation you have only been given little bits of information on.
would you really take advice from total strangers on the internet?

would you really take advice from total strangers on the internet?

What is the purpose of this thread then?

What is the purpose of mumsnet, why do people post on mumsnet asking for advice from total strangers?

Did you even think that bit through, before posting? You realise you ARE on a site designed for people to ask strangers for advice, yeah? smh 🤔🙄 We're all offering help and advice to the best of our ability. So please back off with your attacks and judgements and bullying and leave me alone if you have nothing worthwhile to add to this thread, and go sit in judgement of yourself instead.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 05/09/2024 03:25

There are over 800,000 children currently missing school for non medical reasons. There is zero hope of providing them all with the level of service expected on here because there are so many of them now and there are no resources to do it. Threatening judicial review all over the place seems to have become the knee jerk reaction for almost everything.

Agree. And a lot of the responses to threads like this are an indicator as to why we have councils literally going bankrupt - school transport for kids with tricky needs in rural areas has been cited as one of the biggest factors behind this.

The OP needs to facilitate some sort of schooling here - either move, or find a way to drive her daughter to another school (which might mean one parent has to talk with work and find a way to accommodate this), or find a way to finance online schooling (which might mean downsizing something, selling something, taking on extra weekend work). Her daughter needs to be in school of some kind, and it’s already been a year.

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