To ask if you got your child back into school after EBSA?

I know i will flamed to high heaven saying this but the issue starts much earlier than school. Some children have learned from an early age that if they put on a big display of distress at being made to do things they don't want to do, they can avoid them because their parents are reluctant to put up with the tantrums etc.

It is easier to learn at 2 or 3 than it is to undo a lifetime of this behaviour at 7 or 8.

Modern society is part of the problem, overstimulating, not enough time outdoors, not enough exercise, poor diets, affluenza. But modern parenting is not helping, children need firmer, clearer boundaries and consequences earlier on.

Oh dear, @Dutchhouse14 that sounds awful. I'm so sorry that happened. I used to teach in a girls' grammar and as you describe, we had pretty much no provision for anyone out of the "norm". We actually didn't have a single TA and our SENCO was also librarian and head of careers...

I didn't.
DD started to school avoid in year 8 ( pre covid) I didn't know why it was happening, she barracaded herself in her room, had panic attacks, self harmed, stopped washing, it was like a bomb going off.
Looked for logical reasons, bullying, not liking a particular teacher or lesson, issues on school bus etc. Could find no logical reason, academically she was doing well.
Worked with school, as a grammar school they had 3 part time TAs for 1000 pupils.
So staff kind but no real availability for intervention or support.
Nonetheless working with school we tried lots interventions including exposure therapy but nothing worked and attendance got worse and worse and by start of year 10 after discussion with clinical psychologist we decided to stop trying to send her into school which frankly was a relief.
Just before her 15th birthday she was diagnosed with autism ( private assessment as 2- 3year wait for NHS diagnosis - she was on NHS waiting list)
With diagnosis we were able to get her an EHCP and appealed to tribunal for EOTAS after LA issued an EHCP with no named school as current school couldn't meet need and we couldn't find any specialust school that had a place and could meet need either. At this point she didn't leave her bedroom at all, apart to use the loo, let alone the house.
The crash of her mental health was terrifying and CAMHS were awful no support, fought to get her accepted by CAMHS then she was on a very long waiting list then a when she reached the top of waiting list they told us they couldn't help us as she was too ill to engage with therapy!!!! Desperate we paid for private psychiatrist who prescribed medication. (our local CAMHS refused to refer her to a child and adolescent psychiatrist, I later found out they didn't have one and were struggling to recruit)
LA put no alternative education in place for her when she couldnt attend school - which I later found out later legally it should have done.
So she was failed by LA education services and CAMHS.
It's been hell, but she is slowly getting better, doing well with her EOTAS package which includes therapies but had to go to tribunal twice as LA reduced provision just a few months after it was awarded by first tribunal so we had to go back to tribunal- a process which takes a year - to get it reinstated. It's a never ending battle. Because of all the education missed she now cant slot back into appropriate year group in a school, she's 17 and doing Gcses.
However thankfully things are looking up and she is doing much better but it's been a bloody awful few years and I would not wish it in my worse enemy.
All those who say if it was my child I'd make then go to school have no idea what it's really like to have a child whose in mental health crisis.

Sorry to have leapt to that conclusion, @blalabla. It's been a bad week on MN for posts blaming SEND parents and kids. It sounds a tough situation. Are you in a better place now?

Extremely anxious autistic child - sobbing, hiding under tables, self harming. Absolutely cured of EBSA by going to an autism specialist school. I disagree with the term EBSA, I think he had wildly inappropriate environment of his additional needs. I doubt he'll ever cope with being in a small and very loud room with 33 over people. He can learn though and likely will be able to work (maybe mostly remotely or outdoors). As adults we can make quite a lot of choices about the environments we put ourselves in.

Sadly, often nothing or very little happens. Many are failed by education, health and social care.

What should happen is:
An EHCNA requested if the children don’t already have EHCPs or early review requested if they do.
Section 19 provision put in place - 5hrs twice a week is not full time. LAs know this but often don’t provide more unless forced. The provision doesn’t have to be traditional tutoring if that isn’t suitable.
The school and outside agencies looking at whether adjustments at school will enable DC to reintegrate - sometimes adjustments and additional support can do this, sometimes the school environment is inappropriate no matter what support is provided.
Social care assessments requested - Contact has model letters for this and is often another area where parents who know the system and can advocate get better support.
Health referrals.
Signposted/supported to apply for DLA and any other benefits eligible for if not already in receipt/applied, apply for a blue badge and any other things that may help ease the situation at home, such as a DFG, charity grants, charity support services, etc.

In an ideal world, most of this would already be in place if the family has been struggling for a while. All too often it isn't, though.

In case it is relevant now to anyone reading, you can request an expedited tribunal hearing for those out of school not receiving a full-time education. It doesn’t mean the tribunal will be immediate, but if SENDIST agree, it cuts the wait down.

Sorry, I was not child or parent blaming. In my family, my two neurodiverse sons stopped attending school at 13 and 14. The family situation was very difficult and although school was not a great environment for them, it was absolutely unhealthy for them to be at home with so little occupation, so much stress in the household and so little help from the LA (a tutor came for 2.5 hours twice a week for the youngest; my eldest was too unwell for tuition).

My question, although perhaps not well phrased, was trying to expand the discussion to include families in crisis. By the time my sons could not cope with school, our family was in crisis at multiple levels.

In my case, there was no way we could create a low arousal environment or even keep our very disturbed teenage boys safe without the structure of school.

Many families with neurodiverse children have been struggling for years before their children get to the point where they can no longer go to school

What this thread is discussing is a mismatch between the school environment and a child's needs, frequently, but not not exclusively, associated with neurodiversity. Aspects of the school environment are leading to enduring anxiety and/or trauma that exceeds a child's tolerance. Psychologists supporting schools and families recognise that this isn't a situation in which child blaming or family blaming are appropriate.

What happens when children/teens stop being able to attend school, but the real problems lie at home?

My Dd was an EBSA due to burnout. What worked for us best was time.

However she had done her GCSE’s. After 18 months out of school she’s starting an Access to Higher Education course at college.

5 months ago she refused to attend specialist provision. It was just time that caused the change.

I managed it by moving school to a specialist independent for academically able autistic children. There aren't many of these especially at primary school which is what was needed.

It took a long time as unfortunately EHCP appeals for B, F and I are taking a year. Plus all the prep before that. Which is especially not easy when there's a child out of school.

My LA conceded the appeal after providing absolutely no evidence and missing all deadlines at the last possible moment.

DS is very happy now but it is such a long winded and painful process.

And nowhere have I said otherwise.

Informing parents of the law and what they can do isn’t the same as saying the broken system is their fault.

No, you don't need legal support to appeal. But the process is opaque, jargony, with loads of deadlines. Very difficult to do and engage with, especially if you're not a native English speaker, have an LD yourself or just not the actual time to basically have another job on top of your existing job. We're in the appeals stage at the moment and I am doing it myself.

Most LAs do deliberately crappy assessments as well. Every fight delays things more.

The system is the problem, not parents' ability to follow an opaque process doused in legalese.

If at @EndlessLight is the poster I think she is, she works tirelessly to share her expertise with other parents on MN SEND pages and many of our children now have well defined EHCPs thanks to her advice.

I have supported one child back into mainstream following EBSA with the support of clinical psychology who told a not terribly helpful or skilled school what to do (eg. lower demands and opportunities to fail, work within child's tolerances, give child meaningful choices, emphasise building relationships of trust (staff and students)). DC now attends full time, albeit with lateness on days with a lot of anxiety. Still battling to enforce all of EHCP given pervasiveness of school belief they are mainstream and therefore only need to do QFT <sighs>.

JR is only a "remedy of last resort" and courts won't take it on if you haven't exhausted all other means of solving the problem e.g. LEA complaints process.

This isn’t the case where F is not being provided or where s19 provision is not being provided. See the link you posted (my bold).

“JR is a remedy of last resort. It should be used only after all other efforts to work with the Local Authority to resolve the issue have failed. This includes, for example, ensuring you have used the Local Authority’s formal complaints process where this could provide a realistic remedy – however, it is not a realistic remedy if it would be too slow, for instance, when a child is out of school unlawfully, or is not receiving full time education, or if the child’s special educational needs are not being met.”

LAs can’t ignore the JR process. Recent case law shows even when they think they can, they can’t. The process and timescales, including the ability to request interim provision is ordered whilst the case is ongoing, is explained on the SOSSEN link and links on that page.

DD claims are not the same as JR. The timescales and process are different are different.

You are totally parent blaming

No I am not.

You've asked me why I don't know about EOTAS packages

I have not asked you that. Quote where I have?

told me I'm wrong about many things in my immediate area where other parents know what's available and suitable.

I asked you to quote where I had mentioned your immediate area. You haven’t quoted where I supposedly said this. This is because I haven’t said it. I posted about your LA not your immediate area.

@Frowningprovidence it is not parent blamey at all! And nowhere have I said it was easy! I have said more than once that not appealing is a choice parents can make. The same applies for JR.

Sadly, DC whose parents know the system get better support. It shouldn’t be like that and disappointingly it isn’t going to change in the foreseeable future. Parents need correct information in order to make decisions. Hence my posts. Otherwise myths perpetuated by e.g. LAs, some schools, some EPs, SENDIASS in many areas leave parents misinformed. Parents can’t make informed decisions without all the information such as knowing it isn’t lawful for LAs to expect parents to deliver packages or knowing JR is an option or knowing for JR legal aid is in the child’s name so isn’t based on the parents’ financial situation. I too have ASD and I am awaiting an ADHD assessment.

I know you are trying to be helpful @EndlessLight and I have no doubt you are factually correct and it might spur people to challenge their LA which I am sure is your intent.

But not everyone knows you to help guide them! many parents lack the capacity to do this for themselves. It comes across a bit parent blamey. Like if your childs provisions arent being delivered its your fault for not following processess.

It is not at all unusual for children with adhd or autism to have parents with undiagnosed adhd and autusm or to be dyslexic or to be working peculiar hours around child needs and have no down time to follow judicial review.

Of course there are charities out there to help but people don't always know about them or the charity is overwhelmed with applicants for support.

I do believe you are trying to help out but it isn't easy for people.

complaints process (which is where you are if you have an EOTAS package specified but it isn't being delivered).

If provision is detailed, specified and quantified in F, JR is the route to remedy the situation. The complaints process is too long, so it isn’t a suitable remedy.

As I said, not pursuing an appeal is the parents’ choice. I disagree it isn’t worth pursuing in Y11 though. Some DC don’t get their EHCP until post 16 and then an EOTAS package. Out of the people I have helped, it hasn’t taken me 5 years to achieve an EOTAS package even if the child or young person didn't have an EHCP to start with and an appeal at every stage is required and pre-action letters along the way. And in the meantime, if attending school isn’t suitable, parents can enforce section 19 provision if they decide that is what they want to do.

Parents don’t need legal representation to appeal. Most parents appealing to SENDIST don’t. Some parents choose to go down that route, but it isn’t essential. It is more than possible to be successful without.

Independent assessments are often needed for EOTAS appeals going after comprehensive package. Where parents can’t afford these but aren’t eligible for legal aid, there are charities who can help such as Parents in Need.

Some parents choose not to pursue an appeal and that is their right, obviously, but that decision should be an informed decision based on knowing the law and correct information, not myths the LA likes to perpetuate.

@EndlessLight, you're definitely right about the need for an absolutely watertight EHCP. I've just been notified that crucial funding for key provision has been declined due to an omission in the EHCP which I overlooked at AR due to overwhelm and exhaustion following an intense annual review process and a period of deepening EBSA. This will mean we're unable to make the bridge to gradually build regular attendance at DC1's mainstream secondary again, a place we are desperate to keep due to the social opportunities it affords DC1 when able to attend.

The assumption is that we will not skip a beat but to launch straight into emergency review and appeal, but as a PP says, it's not a given to have the resources to be able to do so, and after years of unflinchingly paddling upstream, fighting and advocating at every turn, I'm surprised to find I may have to tap out ‐I honestly don't think I've got enough fight left in me to go up against our LA. Which is what they're cynically banking on, of course.

@drspouse what I'm saying, in a roundabout way, is that I believe that they key to remedying DC1's EBSA lay in a specific intervention (preparation for adulthood) which the LA could have chosen to fund alongside the school's Ordinarily Available Provision, but they've chosen to obstruct. I'm confident this was the game-changer, the make-or-break.

As far as I can tell no one in my area has got an EOTAS package that would cover all that without having enormous financial, mental and other resources to throw at the appeals process. So it's all very well saying 'you need to appeal' but most people don't have 5k to drop on assessments plus legal fees. It ends up being a PRU or a parent giving up work to coordinate limited tutoring hours.

I definitely think young people can become better at self management too- DD has as she's got older and will take herself out to decompress or chill elsewhere which actually means she's more willing to try things because she knows she can control some of the situation. It doesn't mean she's 'cured' or anyone is trying to 'cure' her, but I do want her to have a range of experiences so she can find things she loves. Obviously some schools are awful at supporting this which is a different issue and often needs to be locked in with an EHCP.

I liked the idea a PP said where their school does 'demand maps'- that's how I have encouraged some ND line-managees to think about their days/weeks, so good to see I was on some sort of right line there. We have conversations along the lines of- all jobs have higher demand times or things we find hard/uncomfortable, how can we manage our time so those don't pile up too much? None of that works in burnout of course but it's maybe a workable strategy for going back in.

A very supportive school. Regular nice phonecalls concerned about both our well-being's. No threats and not telling me to just take him in. Teachers coming round to chat to him. NSPCC social workers doing a programme with him. Then ultimately those people driving him to school. Regular check ins once he was in school.

Y11 this time and he's back in every day, commuting himself and even socialising on the way home some days. We've had the odd blip - one needing the police to find him - but his gcse prospects are good.

No, never got them back in. Actually getting them in to the building became borderline abusive to be honest.

Even if they went in, school failed to provide suitable education or social experiences so it wasn't going to work.

We ended up home educating and it has been a much better experience both educationally and socially.

The education system just isn't suitable for a large number of children OR teachers now, but rather than tackle the causes, governments just stick plasters over the symptoms - threatening parents with fines, coming up with various recruitment campaigns for teachers.

A significant proportion of the people in schools (children and adults) are stressed, overwhelmed and miserable.
We are understanding of teachers choosing to leave toxic environments but children who resist are a problem.