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AIBU to insist on details of husbands affair, he can’t / refuses to give and I can’t move on without details.

258 replies

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 09:46

NC and apols for long post. PLEASE read and advise me, I’m desperate!

Feels like My whole world has just fallen apart.
Been with DH 30 years, married for 22yr, we have 4 DC age 20, 18, 16 and 15.
I’ve just found out that DH has been having an emotional affair with OW at work for probably the last 4 -5 years and finding out has totally floored me. I had no idea, although now looking back all the signs were very much there. So for up to a quarter of our long marriage, he’s been “connected” to HER and not me. How could I have not known.
I can’t sleep, I’m running on adrenaline and having constant palpitations. The only thing I was ever 100% sure about in my life, was that my husband would always be faithful and that he was not capable of having an affair. 😳 Not in a million years did I believe he would ever do this.
DH is well liked, well respected, funny witty and charming and good at his job. There’s a lot of after work socialising which never bothered me because I 100% trusted him 😡
3 years ago his watsapp shows him / her “turning on disappearing messages” then turning it off again, over a couple of days and then left switched off. He says she was just showing him how it could be done as she’s a Wizz with tech and he so isn’t but loves learning new functions. This would have been around the same time that he switched off the watsapp notification banners from his phone.
From the few messages and call logs that he forgot to delete, I can see that whenever she messaged him, he would respond within minutes. I’ve gone thru my messages over 4 years, most of my messages went unanswered. He attends a lot of big sporting events thru work, she’s always there, in fact she’s arranged many of them. I’ve seen a few pics of them together at dinner or an event in a group (all male except HER). She’s always sat next to DH with a big ridiculous grin on her face, him clearly enjoying himself, I want to vomit.
We have a family app that shares all our locations, I often check it and screenshot it as our DD is ND, I don’t trust her when she’s out, she talks to all people and gets herself into difficult and risky situations (it’s a full time job trying to keep her safe.)
DP hadn’t told me he was going out on particular evening a few months ago (we weren’t talking at the time so I just assumed he was being his usual arsey disrespectful self in not telling me he had an event and would be late home). I took a few screenshots of his location that evening, which changed from a pub to a fancy hotel later in the evening (She lives some distance from work so sometimes stays in town when there’s an event)
Turns out he went back to her hotel room for over an hour at the end of the night (he denied this initially saying he only went to the bar in her hotel to have another drink with her, I’ve visited the hotel, it’s huge, the bar is at the far end of the hotel, his location at every check I made, was at the complete opposite end of the hotel where it shows the rooms are. He denies anything went on and he’d just gone up to look at the fancy room. He can’t remember what they talked about, they get on well, the conversation just flows and they enjoy each others company. He’d been drinking all evening, he can’t remember the details, assumes they had a cup of tea and a chat (He’d been with her at work since 9am that morning but still felt the need to stay in her company for over an hour more at 11pm.) He made 3 short calls to her upon arriving at the hotel that night, he can’t remember why but assumes that it was to arrange to meet her in the hotel, as they probably left the pub (5 mins away) separately so nobody from work would be suspicious. (If they are at that stage then I’m very sure that everyone at work will already suspect/know about the affair.) I feel physically sick and I am struggling to get past this without more information which he won’t give me.
He swore on the children’s lives that nothing physical went on. I am inclined to believe him as he struggles with ED and I don’t think he would have wanted to risk putting himself in a vulnerable position where he’d have no guarantee that he could “perform adequately” for her. I now 100% believe that if he didn’t struggle with ED, then the affair would have become physical also.
The same night DH received a message from HER daughter asking if “he’s with mum, cos she’s not picking up”. HER daughter also works for the company. There’s a few messages over the years from daughter asking about mums locations and asking DH to get her mum to call her. The cosiness of it all makes me feel sick. OW is married, her husband isn’t the father of the daughter.
There was a screenshot on his phone of a different hotel / different event / different day, he thinks it was probably the directions to “walk her back safely to her hotel” on that occasion but “can’t remember.”
Our relationship over the last 4 years has not been good. I’ve accused him so many times of being “emotionally abusive.” He’s been totally detached, returning from work either ignoring me completely or if I dared to speak to him he would shout at me or hurl insults. If I wanted to give him updates on the children, he’d shout asking why I was telling him that NOW, as “he’s just walked thru the door / just going to the gym / just eaten his dinner/ just going to bed.” Basically there was never a good time to talk to him, he had been getting his “fix” from HER throughout the day and had nothing left for me, she has been meeting all his emotional needs and sharing all the small talk, which should have been shared with me, his wife.
All he ever wanted to do when he was at home, was sit glued to the TV or his phone.
He’s had a few weekends abroad with his friends (I don’t doubt this as I know the friends). On his return he would barely say Hi to me as he walked thru the door, he would never share the details of his weekend away, he simply did not want to communicate with me. I’ve since seen in messages, he and HER would discuss his weekend away.
I took DD away for 5 days, he never called me once to chat or see how we were getting on.
I went away with my friends for a few days, he worked from home, he called her at 7:35am, he must have been waking up thinking of her. He spent 40 minutes on a call to her later that day. He couldn’t even spend 2 minutes talking to me when I returned home.
As things got worse between us over the 4 yrs, I always had hope that one day he’d calm down, stop being so distant, rude and aggressive towards me and the children. I even contacted his GP and asked him to consider changing his BP meds as they were causing mood changes and making him angry all the time ! As he was getting emotionally closer to her he was putting more distance between us to ease his guilt no doubt.
After admitting the emotional affair, He now recognises he “lost focus” and is really trying his best to be a better husband. We’re talking so much more, there’s hugs and we’ve had sex again. He wants to book more holidays, he’s told me to make enquiries about the loft extension I’ve wanted for 10 years and he wants us to renew our wedding vows. He is making a HUGE effort, I’d genuinly forgotten how good we could be together. Unfortunately the big light inside of me has switched off, yes I’m very much enjoying him showing me all the respect, interest and care that I’ve so craved and needed this last 4 years, but I’m struggling to get past all the lies and deceit and every time he shows me respect I’m totally conflicted, it reminds me of the hell I’ve been thru the last 4 years and what I have missed out on due to his selfish infidelity. He continued to lie about the details and extent of their “very good connection” even after I found out. It was only after me putting together the few messages he hadn’t deleted, his location screen shots and checking it all back to my personal diary that he eventually admitted and became truthful about some of their “togethers”. There must be millions of others that I don’t know about because the information is now all deleted.
He’s now refusing to answer anymore questions, says he’s told me everything he can and he can’t / won’t be telling me anymore, it’s too stressful for him. (He told me very little other than answer direct questions I asked about the content of a few messages I had actually seen.) He will show me by his actions from here on in, that he’s sorry and wants to be a better husband. I definitely see him making a big effort to show me he loves me and he’s sorry.
He keeps telling me how much he loves me and is desperate for me to say it back to him. I can’t as I no longer know what love is. I thought I loved him even during the 4 years that he treated me so appallingly and desperately tried to pin his changed behaviour / distance and aggression towards me on the BP meds. How bloody naive and trusting was I.
I am an incredibly strong and resilient woman but I don’t think that I can move on without knowing the details, I cannot process it unless I know exactly what I am processing and the depth of their relationship / deceit.
I’m awake in the middles of the night with all these scenarios and questions bashing my skull. I can’t think of anything else. I really feel I’m heading for a breakdown. I flit from thinking I need to speak to her, to I need to tell her husband, but really what I need, is for him to tell me, and be honest about all the “details”, it will no doubt be extremely painful for me (him too), but I’d like to think that once I know details, I can process them and in time hopefully think about them less, maybe come to terms with it and move on.
AIBU to insist on the details. Pressuring him for more may well tip him over the edge.
Without them, I don’t think we have a marriage if he can’t be honest with me after what he’s put me thru.
Thank you if you’ve read this far. I’m desperate for advice.

OP posts:
Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:40

redalex261 · 31/08/2024 11:46

There is no mileage in getting him to tell you everything.

  1. He will leave leave stuff out
  2. It will hurt like hell to hear it
  3. You can’t unhear it
  4. No matter what he tells you it will never be enough to satisfy your need to know

You have to decide what’s the dealbreaker for you. Is it them no longer working in the same business? Many spouses would struggle hard with accepting this one. If he admits having sex with her would that be something you could “process” and move on from or would that admission simply lead to more questions - how many times? Was it better with her? and other potentially hurtful answers. Would you really believe him if he continued to deny sex? Would you persist in questioning him on this for years?

If you think you can go on in this marriage then you will have to deal with what you know now and stop seeking extra details to torture yourself with. It ends up like picking a scab - a big poisoned wound. If you do this you have to speak your piece about what you want going forward then move on without casting it up at every opportunity - if you can’t let it go there is no point prolonging the agony. Couples Counselling may help. Also, if you decide to continue in the marriage you need to deal with his other shitty behaviour too.

If you can’t move past it (most people can’t) then call it a day and move on.

This is a horrible situation for you - it’s easy for us internet strangers to tell you what to do from the safety of our own lives but you have to decide for yourself. Can I suggest you get some time away on your own to think things through and consider what you want without input from him, your family or anyone else? Best of luck.

Many, many thanks.
On top of everything else, If I knew they’d had sex then there would be no coming back.
I know most posters believe he has had sex with her.
I don’t believe he has. He would NEVER put himself in such a vulnerable position where he would be uncertain whether he could perform.
He is fiercely competitive, has to be the best at everything he does, no way would he expose himself to possible embarrassing failure in this way.

OP posts:
TammyJones · 31/08/2024 13:39

Ps. Is it possible to have some bp medication that doesn't effect ED

AlertCat · 31/08/2024 13:39

How sad for him that discussing his affair is “stressful” for him. How sad it must be for him that he is now having to make an effort to be nice to you. How unreasonable of you to expect that his remorse might mean that he makes some significant concessions to YOUR feelings about his behaviour!

No. He is still being emotionally abusive. My ex did this- I’d bring something up and HE would blame ME for making him feel bad, and I would end up apologising when actually he was the one at fault. This won’t change and I bet anything that it started before his affair did. It’s who he is, and it could destroy your mental health. I was a shell when I finally left my ex, after years of manipulation and gaslighting.

If he isn’t willing to make a few sacrifices to get your trust and relationship back, then he isn’t really sorry. If he is only willing to do things like be nice to you and have sex with you, he isn’t serious about being remorseful. Being nice should be the absolute basement level of a relationship! Imagine you were advising a friend who had written what you’ve written. What would you see, what would you say to her?

Honestly leaving him will be painful, but ultimately more healing for you than staying under his rules of forgiveness. Do take your time though and make sure you have good legal advice and keep your documents safe, somewhere out of the house that he doesn’t have access to. Stuff like passport, birth certificate, marriage certificate, children’s documents.

I’m so sorry, but I hope you can make a positive change.

TammyJones · 31/08/2024 13:37

@Iwillcomeouttheotherend
Bit confused.
In your first post you said you had sex , which you made it seem like a positive step.

Then in your last / 6th post you said you'd had 2 attempts at sex - not very successfully.

Affairs / emotional affairs don't come out of nowhere.

Seems like you've have intimacy issues for 8 years which has caused problems and arguments between you for years , until you don't even know what you're arguing about.

Sex is important in marriage.

This ow is totally irrelevant.

If she was a he would it bother you?

Sounds like they just were really good friends- and maybe he was opening up to her , when it should have been you. ...,

Your best bet is to get the ED sorted.

This really is the white elephant in the room

Because until that sorted the other things pale in comparison.

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:31

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 31/08/2024 12:10

I don't think you should speak to her (from your OP); you won't get the truth.

I've done something similar - EA with a guy at work before I was married. I ended it and got engaged to my now-DH. So it is possible to salvage your marriage if you both want to, but I wouldn't be pressuring him to reveal all the details. He has a lot of making up to do and he knows it - let him do it and make sure he treats you like a queen from now on, or else! I would suggest counselling.

Thank you.
When im overcome with anger I feel like contacting her husband and telling him.
But I probably won’t.
After you ended your EA, how awkward / difficult was it for you to continue working with him ?

OP posts:
Callixte · 31/08/2024 13:28

I read your original post thinking I understand why this is bothering you so much, but you have to put it behind you and focus on your future because neither of these people is worth any more of your time and care. (This wasn't "just" because of the affair and lies, but also your more general comments like I’ve accused him so many times of being “emotionally abusive” and he’s been totally detached, returning from work either ignoring me completely or if I dared to speak to him he would shout at me or hurl insults and I just assumed he was being his usual arsey disrespectful self.) Then I saw that the two of you are staying together.

If the two of you plan to try to restore trust in the relationship, then you're right; he'd need to tell you whatever details you need to know. You may decide you DON'T want to know past details, but that's your decision, not his. I don't say that from an ethical or moral standpoint (actually it might be a violation of his affair partner's privacy) but from a practical one. He has completely honest and open about the past AND about what he's currently doing, however painful and embarrassing and tedious it feels. For as long as it takes.

A marriage counselor will typically make this clear at the outset because if you aren't both willing to do "whatever it takes", reconciliation has a low chance of succeeding. That's true for any one-sided cheating or similar breach of trust, but he hasn't just carelessly damaged your trust, he's willfully abused it for years until it's completely shattered. And you know he routinely lies to you until you confront him with specific proof. I'd think carefully about whether you really believe that you CAN trust him again, because if not you could be wasting years and end up separating anyway even if he has a complete change of heart and does his best to cooperate. (And of course, if you ARE in an abusive relationship marriage counseling isn't an option even if he would agree to it.)

IF you stay together knowing that trust is broken and won't be repaired, that's your choice and I guess he can keep his secrets. But he's a complete arse (and that IS a moral and ethical judgement) if he's hiding something that impacts your health (e.g., if his relationship could have resulted in an STD he could pass to you) and that includes mental health and well-being. And yes, you'd have to accept that he's likely to do this again - not necessarily with the same woman.

StrangeSallyDiamond · 31/08/2024 13:26

You haven’t answered how you found out and why, and why he’s decided after this many years it’s gone too far?

it was physical op. 100%. Maybe he couldn’t get it up (but I bet he could) but there’s more to being physical than PIV.

you’re making a mistake.

researchers3 · 31/08/2024 13:22

OP I really don't want to hurt you or kick you while you're down but he's lying. Of course this was a physical affair.

You're in a state because your subconscious knows this.

To lie to this degree to you is abusive imo.

All you can do is kick him out.

You are completely trauma bonded so this may not feel possible. I was just the same. It's fucking horrible.

Don't go to counselling with him, there is no point.

Confide in your close friends, get therapy for yourself and ask your GP for propranolol for anxiety. These things saved my life - probably literally.

Please look after yourself and know that this feeling won't last forever.

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:19

theduchessofspork · 31/08/2024 11:12

It doesn’t sound like your marriage was in a good place OP, so while I realise this is a massive shock, you will probably have to have a period of reflection as to if and how your marriage can work.

He sounds like he’s love bombing you at the moment, which could be because he genuinely doesn’t want to loose his marriage and family, or could just be panic.

Is he going to leave his job? Or how will that work?

I wouldn’t easily believe this wasn’t a physical affair, but you never know.

You can’t demand details from him though, and it wouldn’t make you feel any better if he did give them up.

For now I think you both need to step back and think about what you want. Do not be rushed into vow renewals or any nonsense - give it 2 years before you start any of that.

Thank you.
I feel that he genuinely doesn’t want to loose the family and marriage.
He will not leave his job (only a few more years before he will take early retirement)
She’s currently working remotely atm, contact has been reduced to only when necessary, more formally via emails rather than calls.
He will show me evidence of this when I ask. (Reluctantly because he is pissed off with keep talking about it)
She will be returning to the office week after next.
He’s given a lot of reassurances but I know I’m going to struggle even more when she returns.
He said that the conversation with her re their relationship crossing a line and things would be changing, was very awkward and she couldn’t understand why I had labelled it an EA !!!
The few brief work related calls since have been awkward too (which bloody well gives me comfort)
There definitely wont be any renewal in the near future.
I need time to see where this goes and decide what to do.

OP posts:
emmypa · 31/08/2024 13:14

I really feel for you, it's a terribly difficult situation you're in. I think your DH is lying about it not being a physical affair (he was in her hotel room OP). Most likely, he doesn't have the courage to admit it. Also do you think his sudden change of attitude towards you isn't due to his desire to avoid a costly and turbulent divorce? You need answers and sadly, it seems unlikely he's going to give them to you.

MsStella · 31/08/2024 13:00

He's a liar still lying, and has shown he's more than capable of this for years. He's irritated that you need details. He's stressed because of this. The irony. He will still see her regularly, so even if you wanted to move on, he probably won't.

I could never forgive this. Life is too precious and I don't think he is worth another day of your future.

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 12:48

Noseybookworm · 31/08/2024 11:11

In all honesty OP I don't see how you can both move on and repair your relationship while he is still working with this woman. You are always going to be suspicious, always going to be checking on him, always going to worry that if you have a row he'll go running back to her for emotional support. I just don't know how anyone can live like that. You say you want him to give you all the details of their relationship but you won't know if he's telling you the truth no matter what he says. You want to believe that the affair wasn't physical, however unlikely that sounds. All in all, it doesn't sound positive. He is making an effort at the moment but will it be sustained? Can you forgive his awful treatment of you for all those years when he neglected/ignored you? I'm not sure I could 😕

Thank you.
What hurts as much if not more than the EA is his treatment towards me this last 4 years, which clearly was to ease his guilt.

OP posts:
VanCleefArpels · 31/08/2024 12:48

So for 4 years he was (metaphorically speaking) bashing you over the head, then the revelations about the other woman is a kick in the shins, but you still want him to poke you in the eye with further details?? Why would you want to cause yourself more pain? What are you going to do with more information? Say he was shagging this other woman, how would that make things better for you? I’d encourage you to work on your own self esteem abn work towards a separation. This is not a good man.

AgnesX · 31/08/2024 12:47

SnowflakeSmasher86 · 31/08/2024 10:29

You say ‘then-husband’ - how did that work out for you?

I appreciate what you’re saying about not being able to unhear things, but without honesty what the fuck is the point?

He's been honest. The OP is punishing herself by wanting to hear every last sordid detail. She knows that he's been having the affair, the details aren't going to achieve anything else.

She either forgives him or she doesn't. Personally, I couldn't, regardless.

markzily · 31/08/2024 12:44

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Dweetfidilove · 31/08/2024 12:40

At this point the affair is moot, although it's clearly more than emotional.

This man is
>verbally and emotionally abusive
>insulting and disrespectful
>ignores you
>has no interest in you or your children, but has a relationship with the OW's child
>unable to meet your sexual needs
>a liar
>after being caught in an affair, is continuing his lack of care in telling you he's done talking about it
>you can't even ask him to leave his job (usually a basic requirement), because he won't
>and so on and so forth...

If you can get past all this, you can move in without all the details.
You already knew he wasn't trustworthy, hence the screenshots...
You're unlikely to be any happier than you've been for the past however many years though.

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 12:37

BarbedButterfly · 31/08/2024 12:19

As everyone else said OP, this was definitely a physical affair. Even with ED you can do plenty of other things in a hotel room for an hour and that's if he didn't use viagra.

I think this is too painful to acknowledge right now which is why you've only replied to that one comment, but I think you are so switched off with him because you already know this and aren't ready to process yet.

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.
He has seriously high blood pressure.
His ED started about 8 years ago after he was put on medication for BP, ED is a very common side effect of the meds he’s on.
He stopped trying with sex after a while as it was too embarrassing for him even tho he knew I NEVER judged him for it. He was advised back then not to take Viagra.
As a result, we were not having sex before “Lindsay” started working for the company.
We’ve attempted sex twice in the last week, neither time was particularly successful. He was very upset and embarrassed after. I know he was attempting sex to try to please me.
I absolutely know that he would never want to expose his struggles with performance in bed or put himself in this vulnerable position with another woman.

OP posts:
Wasityoubecayse · 31/08/2024 12:37

Man can I just say you are an amazing women. I'd love you to start getting yourself in order to see what life outside him could be. I suspect he was dumped. Your worth more than even another day with that man also ED is a buzz killer let him know if your feeling mean.

StormingNorman · 31/08/2024 12:28

OP are you listening to the advice on here. The only posts you respond to are the ones which support your world view.

He was invested in this relationship for four years and treated you like the outsider. You’ve demeaned yourself by going through his phone. Whatever “truth” he tell you won’t be enough because you won’t believe him.

I could probably tolerate a one off drunken shag, but four years together is love. I couldn’t cope with that. It almost doesn’t matter if they had sex (which they did) because he committed to a long-term emotional relationship with her. He spent four years choosing her over you.

You owe it to yourself to consider an exit.

Lavender14 · 31/08/2024 12:27

Having been in a not totally dissimilar situation op I think it's important he tells you everything and is completely transparent in order for you to properly move on. If he doesn't then you run the risk of finding out more later, or feeling like he's still lying and hiding things. I think if he's genuinely committed to making amends with you then he needs to tell you everything so there are no surprises for you later. He needs to cut all ties with her and find a new job and he needs to commit to marriage counselling etc to actively make changes in your marriage. If he's not willing to do whatever you ask to help you move on then I'd separate.

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 12:19

Lorelaigilmore88 · 31/08/2024 11:05

She hasn't stalked him. When you know in your heart you are being betrayed, gaslit and lied to it makes you question your own sanity and you often do anything to try and find the truth/evidence.

Thank you.
I didn’t stalk him.
I screenshot his location one evening at 10;30pm and 11;55pm when he hadn’t bothered telling me he would be going out for the evening.
All the other details I have found from him handing me his phone and allowing me to go thru it.
Yes I cross checked details I found on his phone to my personal diary.

OP posts:
BarbedButterfly · 31/08/2024 12:19

As everyone else said OP, this was definitely a physical affair. Even with ED you can do plenty of other things in a hotel room for an hour and that's if he didn't use viagra.

I think this is too painful to acknowledge right now which is why you've only replied to that one comment, but I think you are so switched off with him because you already know this and aren't ready to process yet.

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 31/08/2024 12:12

He's been with her for 5 years? How did you find out? Did he suddenly confess?

I'm just wondering what changed. If her husband found out and threatened to tell you. Someone else. Or she dumped him. Something has changed and I think it would be useful for you to find out what.

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 31/08/2024 12:10

I don't think you should speak to her (from your OP); you won't get the truth.

I've done something similar - EA with a guy at work before I was married. I ended it and got engaged to my now-DH. So it is possible to salvage your marriage if you both want to, but I wouldn't be pressuring him to reveal all the details. He has a lot of making up to do and he knows it - let him do it and make sure he treats you like a queen from now on, or else! I would suggest counselling.

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 31/08/2024 12:10

He's definitely lying about the physical thing, absolutely no way was he in a room with this woman and not doing something physical with her.

I'm sorry this has happened to you op.

I don't think knowing all the gory details will help unfortunately, allow yourself some time and then start working out the practicalities of leaving him.

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