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AIBU to insist on details of husbands affair, he can’t / refuses to give and I can’t move on without details.

258 replies

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 09:46

NC and apols for long post. PLEASE read and advise me, I’m desperate!

Feels like My whole world has just fallen apart.
Been with DH 30 years, married for 22yr, we have 4 DC age 20, 18, 16 and 15.
I’ve just found out that DH has been having an emotional affair with OW at work for probably the last 4 -5 years and finding out has totally floored me. I had no idea, although now looking back all the signs were very much there. So for up to a quarter of our long marriage, he’s been “connected” to HER and not me. How could I have not known.
I can’t sleep, I’m running on adrenaline and having constant palpitations. The only thing I was ever 100% sure about in my life, was that my husband would always be faithful and that he was not capable of having an affair. 😳 Not in a million years did I believe he would ever do this.
DH is well liked, well respected, funny witty and charming and good at his job. There’s a lot of after work socialising which never bothered me because I 100% trusted him 😡
3 years ago his watsapp shows him / her “turning on disappearing messages” then turning it off again, over a couple of days and then left switched off. He says she was just showing him how it could be done as she’s a Wizz with tech and he so isn’t but loves learning new functions. This would have been around the same time that he switched off the watsapp notification banners from his phone.
From the few messages and call logs that he forgot to delete, I can see that whenever she messaged him, he would respond within minutes. I’ve gone thru my messages over 4 years, most of my messages went unanswered. He attends a lot of big sporting events thru work, she’s always there, in fact she’s arranged many of them. I’ve seen a few pics of them together at dinner or an event in a group (all male except HER). She’s always sat next to DH with a big ridiculous grin on her face, him clearly enjoying himself, I want to vomit.
We have a family app that shares all our locations, I often check it and screenshot it as our DD is ND, I don’t trust her when she’s out, she talks to all people and gets herself into difficult and risky situations (it’s a full time job trying to keep her safe.)
DP hadn’t told me he was going out on particular evening a few months ago (we weren’t talking at the time so I just assumed he was being his usual arsey disrespectful self in not telling me he had an event and would be late home). I took a few screenshots of his location that evening, which changed from a pub to a fancy hotel later in the evening (She lives some distance from work so sometimes stays in town when there’s an event)
Turns out he went back to her hotel room for over an hour at the end of the night (he denied this initially saying he only went to the bar in her hotel to have another drink with her, I’ve visited the hotel, it’s huge, the bar is at the far end of the hotel, his location at every check I made, was at the complete opposite end of the hotel where it shows the rooms are. He denies anything went on and he’d just gone up to look at the fancy room. He can’t remember what they talked about, they get on well, the conversation just flows and they enjoy each others company. He’d been drinking all evening, he can’t remember the details, assumes they had a cup of tea and a chat (He’d been with her at work since 9am that morning but still felt the need to stay in her company for over an hour more at 11pm.) He made 3 short calls to her upon arriving at the hotel that night, he can’t remember why but assumes that it was to arrange to meet her in the hotel, as they probably left the pub (5 mins away) separately so nobody from work would be suspicious. (If they are at that stage then I’m very sure that everyone at work will already suspect/know about the affair.) I feel physically sick and I am struggling to get past this without more information which he won’t give me.
He swore on the children’s lives that nothing physical went on. I am inclined to believe him as he struggles with ED and I don’t think he would have wanted to risk putting himself in a vulnerable position where he’d have no guarantee that he could “perform adequately” for her. I now 100% believe that if he didn’t struggle with ED, then the affair would have become physical also.
The same night DH received a message from HER daughter asking if “he’s with mum, cos she’s not picking up”. HER daughter also works for the company. There’s a few messages over the years from daughter asking about mums locations and asking DH to get her mum to call her. The cosiness of it all makes me feel sick. OW is married, her husband isn’t the father of the daughter.
There was a screenshot on his phone of a different hotel / different event / different day, he thinks it was probably the directions to “walk her back safely to her hotel” on that occasion but “can’t remember.”
Our relationship over the last 4 years has not been good. I’ve accused him so many times of being “emotionally abusive.” He’s been totally detached, returning from work either ignoring me completely or if I dared to speak to him he would shout at me or hurl insults. If I wanted to give him updates on the children, he’d shout asking why I was telling him that NOW, as “he’s just walked thru the door / just going to the gym / just eaten his dinner/ just going to bed.” Basically there was never a good time to talk to him, he had been getting his “fix” from HER throughout the day and had nothing left for me, she has been meeting all his emotional needs and sharing all the small talk, which should have been shared with me, his wife.
All he ever wanted to do when he was at home, was sit glued to the TV or his phone.
He’s had a few weekends abroad with his friends (I don’t doubt this as I know the friends). On his return he would barely say Hi to me as he walked thru the door, he would never share the details of his weekend away, he simply did not want to communicate with me. I’ve since seen in messages, he and HER would discuss his weekend away.
I took DD away for 5 days, he never called me once to chat or see how we were getting on.
I went away with my friends for a few days, he worked from home, he called her at 7:35am, he must have been waking up thinking of her. He spent 40 minutes on a call to her later that day. He couldn’t even spend 2 minutes talking to me when I returned home.
As things got worse between us over the 4 yrs, I always had hope that one day he’d calm down, stop being so distant, rude and aggressive towards me and the children. I even contacted his GP and asked him to consider changing his BP meds as they were causing mood changes and making him angry all the time ! As he was getting emotionally closer to her he was putting more distance between us to ease his guilt no doubt.
After admitting the emotional affair, He now recognises he “lost focus” and is really trying his best to be a better husband. We’re talking so much more, there’s hugs and we’ve had sex again. He wants to book more holidays, he’s told me to make enquiries about the loft extension I’ve wanted for 10 years and he wants us to renew our wedding vows. He is making a HUGE effort, I’d genuinly forgotten how good we could be together. Unfortunately the big light inside of me has switched off, yes I’m very much enjoying him showing me all the respect, interest and care that I’ve so craved and needed this last 4 years, but I’m struggling to get past all the lies and deceit and every time he shows me respect I’m totally conflicted, it reminds me of the hell I’ve been thru the last 4 years and what I have missed out on due to his selfish infidelity. He continued to lie about the details and extent of their “very good connection” even after I found out. It was only after me putting together the few messages he hadn’t deleted, his location screen shots and checking it all back to my personal diary that he eventually admitted and became truthful about some of their “togethers”. There must be millions of others that I don’t know about because the information is now all deleted.
He’s now refusing to answer anymore questions, says he’s told me everything he can and he can’t / won’t be telling me anymore, it’s too stressful for him. (He told me very little other than answer direct questions I asked about the content of a few messages I had actually seen.) He will show me by his actions from here on in, that he’s sorry and wants to be a better husband. I definitely see him making a big effort to show me he loves me and he’s sorry.
He keeps telling me how much he loves me and is desperate for me to say it back to him. I can’t as I no longer know what love is. I thought I loved him even during the 4 years that he treated me so appallingly and desperately tried to pin his changed behaviour / distance and aggression towards me on the BP meds. How bloody naive and trusting was I.
I am an incredibly strong and resilient woman but I don’t think that I can move on without knowing the details, I cannot process it unless I know exactly what I am processing and the depth of their relationship / deceit.
I’m awake in the middles of the night with all these scenarios and questions bashing my skull. I can’t think of anything else. I really feel I’m heading for a breakdown. I flit from thinking I need to speak to her, to I need to tell her husband, but really what I need, is for him to tell me, and be honest about all the “details”, it will no doubt be extremely painful for me (him too), but I’d like to think that once I know details, I can process them and in time hopefully think about them less, maybe come to terms with it and move on.
AIBU to insist on the details. Pressuring him for more may well tip him over the edge.
Without them, I don’t think we have a marriage if he can’t be honest with me after what he’s put me thru.
Thank you if you’ve read this far. I’m desperate for advice.

OP posts:
NetflixAndKill · 31/08/2024 14:56

I think he knows your draw the line at a sexual interaction and that’s why he’s playing this down. He’s admitting to a lesser offence so his penalty won’t be to lose you. I also think that, you know deep down that this EA has also been physical.

Usercyzabc · 31/08/2024 14:55

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 14:48

she couldn’t understand why I had labelled it an EA !

Just to add, a woman who - for four years - is exchanging an excess of messages with a married man with four children, having to turn on disappearing messages due to their content, who is receiving early morning personal calls from him, whose DD has his number & is calling him enquiring about her whereabouts, and who has done all this with a work colleague to boot ...... Is not exactly the most reliable arbiter of what is or isn't an emotional affair.

Women who have zero appropriate boundaries around other people's husbands (or in their workplace) don't get to define emotional affairs.

Edited

Calling someone a silly low integrity bitch isn’t particularly helpful, assume you’ve been in a similar situation to the OP.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 14:48

she couldn’t understand why I had labelled it an EA !

Just to add, a woman who - for four years - is exchanging an excess of messages with a married man with four children, having to turn on disappearing messages due to their content, who is receiving early morning personal calls from him, whose DD has his number & is calling him enquiring about her whereabouts, and who has done all this with a work colleague to boot ...... Is not exactly the most reliable arbiter of what is or isn't an emotional affair.

Women who have zero appropriate boundaries around other people's husbands (or in their workplace) don't get to define emotional affairs.

Projectme · 31/08/2024 14:38

StormingNorman · 31/08/2024 14:23

You are very focussed on penetration as if that’s the be all and end all. For all you know he discussed the medication and ED with her. There’s a lot more to sex than PIV. Abstaining for four years with an emotional connection would take super human strength. And if he had that level of self-control he wouldn’t have gotten into the affair in the first place.

Absolutely. You really don't know 100% for sure he hasn't been physical.

You've said that if you found out that he had been physical with OW, then your marriage is over but in all honesty, he'd checked out of your marriage for 4 years...he may as well have had a full on sexual affair for all the respect he's given you and your marriage and family. I fail to see how the physical act is the tipping point for you given his past behaviour...for 4 bloody years?!

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 14:37

Why is sex the deal breaker here?

I agree that people often become focused on piv sex as the deal breaker, thereby letting everything else that is a deal breaker be disregarded sooner or later.

As long as there's no proof that a penis entered or partially entered a vagina ....when you look at the context of emotional infidelity, disrespect, checking out of family live, selfishness, emotional abuse etc., it is almost ludicrous.

Oh and re. her dd having his number & making calls to him; seriously it sounds like he became like her mother's partner. Who has that level of familiarity and phone number etc. for a parent's work colleague.

Blueuggboots · 31/08/2024 14:37

Dump him!!

He's trying to work his way back into your good books, he has no respect or care for you.

Tell people in RL what he's done and find your anger!!!

Why on earth would you think it's acceptable to tolerate this disgraceful behaviour??!

KaleQueen · 31/08/2024 14:29

The time the daughter rang him because her mother wasn’t answering the phone? Why wasn’t she answering the phone? Because she was busy with your husband. If they’d just been chatting she’d have answered and said ‘oh I’m just having a drink with xx’ if you child calls you, you answer. Unless you’re unable to.
as another poster said - your subconscious knows this. This wasn’t just an EA

BlastedPimples · 31/08/2024 14:28

They had sex.

For sure.

Even if (and they did) they didn't, he has still massively betrayed you.

Why is sex the deal breaker here?

Op, it's horrific what you're going through.

He'll do it again.

StormingNorman · 31/08/2024 14:23

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:40

Many, many thanks.
On top of everything else, If I knew they’d had sex then there would be no coming back.
I know most posters believe he has had sex with her.
I don’t believe he has. He would NEVER put himself in such a vulnerable position where he would be uncertain whether he could perform.
He is fiercely competitive, has to be the best at everything he does, no way would he expose himself to possible embarrassing failure in this way.

You are very focussed on penetration as if that’s the be all and end all. For all you know he discussed the medication and ED with her. There’s a lot more to sex than PIV. Abstaining for four years with an emotional connection would take super human strength. And if he had that level of self-control he wouldn’t have gotten into the affair in the first place.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 14:20

Also, to put the shit cherry on top of the cake, after emotionally (?) cheating on you for 4 years ...and emotionally abusing you & your kids ..... He's actually gas lighting using his affair partner:s opinions.

Like ......smh

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 14:19

she couldn’t understand why I had labelled it an EA !

Well let's hope a partner of hers does to her what he and she have done to you for four years; and she can reassess her understanding of that definition.

Always "nothing" when you're not on receiving end of it, eh.

CoffeandTiaMaria · 31/08/2024 14:14

The fact that OW’s daughter contacts him to find out where her mother is shrieks volumes. She seems to know what’s going on, handy if she also works in the same place.

I’m another who thinks he’s had sex with the OW, viagra kept somewhere handy where you won’t find it (search his car?)

Personally I wouldn’t want him anywhere near me, he’s a grubby, abusive little man, she’d be welcome to him if this happened to me.

EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 31/08/2024 14:04

He’s now refusing to answer anymore questions, says he’s told me everything he can and he can’t / won’t be telling me anymore, it’s too stressful for him. So let me get this straight, he is refusing to reassure you by giving you want you need because this situation is stressful for HIM. He's cheated in some way, emotional, physical, both and yet after causing you all this pain and harm he still can't put you first. Him before you always.

He will show me evidence of this when I ask. (Reluctantly because he is pissed off with keep talking about it) and he's also pissed off you need reassure after he at the very least conducted an emotional affair for 4 year.

He said that the conversation with her re their relationship crossing a line and things would be changing, was very awkward and she couldn’t understand why I had labelled it an EA !!!
What actual bit of his behaviour shows you he's remorseful and willing to fix things and never, ever do this again? Because none of the above screams I know I fucked up massively and I want to make things right if you'll give me another chance. He's not acting like a loving husband who wants to make things right. He's minimising your feelings, talking about you to the woman he had the emotional affair with and then he's trying to use that conversation to manipulate you into feeling wrong for being hurt your supposedly loving husband spent years focusing on another woman. That's not remorse or care or trying to repair the harm he did, that's wanting to shut you up and shut you down.

NeverHadHaveHas · 31/08/2024 14:03

Just wanted to send hugs OP and say that I completely empathise with your desire to know specifics in terms of whether there was a physical affair. I don’t want to hi-Jack, but my husband also admitted to spending a night in a hotel with a colleague who he admitted to having an EA with.
I have always been desperate to know the specifics, but try to tell myself that no good would come of it, and I’ll never know so I need to make peace with that. I think the people who are saying that the EA and abusive are enough to end the marriage are right.

JanefromLondon1 · 31/08/2024 14:01

They only tell you what they think they can get away with and the not wanting to talk will be because there was more and he won't be able to remember the lies he has told you and is scared of tripping himself up OP.

His behaviour is because he has compartmentalised you in the relationship as not being his person and not giving you any emotional attention as he's been giving it all to her. It's not his guilt.

A marriage counsellor will tell him he needs to tell you everything or you'll never get past this.

Sadly I think there's more. There's always non PIV sex and viagra if he's worried about his ED and he could have told her that it's because he's not had sex with you for years that he can't perform. 4 years of an EA just doesn't ring true.

If he wants your relationship to recover he has to be completely honest and tell you everything. You have a right to know before deciding what you are going to do going forward. He doesn't have the right to just shut down your questions when he has been cheating.

thecrossIambearing · 31/08/2024 13:56

I could have written your post. I've been there. He will be lying about much of this and as you already know he is unwilling to talk about it. My ex h said all the same stuff , cried the tears etc and for a while - maybe about a year - he did do better. It didn't last though as they start to miss the affair person and get in touch again. They start to get impatient that you are not over it. My ex h contact ended again and then about 2 years after that he just disappeared one day- packed some stuff and left. To this day I do not know if they were in contact the whole time but they are now married. Don't let him do this to you. I did because probably I couldn't imagine a life without him and was scared I think. It was all incredibly painful as you say and physically caused a great deal of stress related illness. Now I am very happy. I am actually remarried to a lovely man. I got half of the marriage assets and pension and I live very comfortably. 4 years is not a fling . It is well established. He has lied all this time and ridiculed you. He will find it hard to give it up. He's panicking now as they all do when initially found out. Read the Shirley Glass book. It makes a lot of sense.

AIBU to insist on details of husbands affair, he can’t / refuses to give and I can’t move on without details.
Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:53

Whatafuckingknob · 31/08/2024 11:51

Even if he gives you details, you’ll still wonder if there’s more he hasn’t told you. He has lied. Lied for years. You can never trust him. He can swear on anything he likes, but he’ll still more than likely be lying or at least withholding.
My husband cheated on me for well over a decade. I had no clue. Like you I never in a million years thought he would/could.
As the details came out, slowly over a period of 4-5 months, I lost count of the number of times he promised that ‘that’s it, there no more, there is a limit to what I did’……..and yet, funnily enough, revelation after hideous revelation just kept on coming.
So I guess what I’m saying is I understand your need to know. Perhaps knowing will allow to see him for who he is and make you resolved to leave him. Perhaps it will allow you to forgive him. Perhaps, once you know everything you will feel such a dislike and lack of respect for him, you simply won’t care anymore.

Thank you for sharing.
That must have been incredibly painful for you. I take it you left him?
Hope life is going well for you now.
He is giving me all the attention, care and respect that he should have been these last 4 years. I am enjoying it and then I just switch, look at him and feel such dislike for him from what he’s put me thru.

OP posts:
HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 13:53

I think the fact that they were physical is the reason why he's refusing to talk about it and getting all defensive and emotional, it's an attempt to fend you off from finding out the truth because he knows deep down its a deal breaker for you.

Yep.

The chance of them not doing anything physical given they had an emotional affair for a long time, were presumably physically attracted to each other, and had ample opportunities .... . Is low.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 13:51

This is the time he should be fighting for you and instead it's become about how hard it is for him.

Yep.

There's definitely a lot of darvo going on here.

These men who are caught cheating but he one the victim and make the real victim pipe down and even support them.

It's classic.

You see it on here all the time.

LittleSeasideCottage · 31/08/2024 13:50

I'm so sorry this has happened to you OP. But I can't help but think you're being a little naive thinking they haven't had sex.

You say he would never want to be embarrassed in front of anyone else , but he did have that deep emotional intimacy with her too so maybe they did try. It is possible given the length of the relationship, (which is what it was, I know that must be hard to hear) its more likely than not they did at least try. Also, not to be crude but there's many ways to have sex without having full penetrative sex.

I think the fact that they were physical is the reason why he's refusing to talk about it and getting all defensive and emotional, it's an attempt to fend you off from finding out the truth because he knows deep down its a deal breaker for you.

I'm sorry this has happened to you. A relationship that went on that long is not something I could forgive.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 13:48

He sounds like he's been emotionally abusive to you and your kids, as well as unfaithful (even if the infidelity was not piv sex) for an extended period.

He's now stonewalling you.

(When there is no-one with less right to stone wall you).

I think your loyalty, decency and commitment are wasted on him tbh.

You're a good person, he isn't.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 13:46

Iwillcomeouttheotherend · 31/08/2024 13:40

Many, many thanks.
On top of everything else, If I knew they’d had sex then there would be no coming back.
I know most posters believe he has had sex with her.
I don’t believe he has. He would NEVER put himself in such a vulnerable position where he would be uncertain whether he could perform.
He is fiercely competitive, has to be the best at everything he does, no way would he expose himself to possible embarrassing failure in this way.

It's possible he didn't.

It's possible he tested out and then used some viagra or similar (?)

It's also possible to have sexual contact with someone without penetration.

solocyote · 31/08/2024 13:45

He's the one who has betrayed you and caused this pain. Not just one time but a series of choices every day for 4 years. He was never honest and had to be caught to be sorry.

The affair being revealed has not impacted him negatively at all. He keeps his job, his family home, is able to continue working with her, and so far keeps his wife who still is willing to have sex with him.

On top of all that he acts the victim and goes on about how hard it is for him to talk about it.

Had he truly accepted responsibility he would understand he has to sacrifice some things as a consequence - he has to find another place to work, stop communication with her, build back
Your trust gradually etc. This is the time he should be fighting for you and instead it's become about how hard it is for him.

You're the one who has been wronged and you're the one who suffers. He gets to decide to draw a line under the sand and continue his life with no consequence.

I don't think it's odd for you to want to know. If you're going to forgive you want to know what you're forgiving and after being lied to so much you want a moment of connection and genuine honesty from the person you are supposed to trust the most in the world. You will not get that. People who need to be caught and are able to go home and lie every day for years are perfectly capable of continuing to lie, to get away with as much as possible.

Take the ED for example. You're saying he wouldn't risk being in that situation where he is embarrassed sexually but an affair is the perfect cover. They kiss. They touch. He does all the stuff to her that isn't penetration. If things aren't happening down there he can simply say "we shouldn't go any further this is really naughty of us teehee. I really want to but we shouldn't do this" and no embarrassment necessary. If things are taking off down there then off he goes.

HazelPlayer · 31/08/2024 13:44

He becomes so stressed whenever I ask him anything about it or bring up the subject.

That's a very good strategy to shut you down.

Also he probably is stressed - because the more he answers your questions, the more he incriminates himself. He's highly likely minimising everything. The more he talks and more you ask, that will become clear. He will get tripped up and have to lie repeatedly etc. So he doesn't want to talk. He wants you shut down.

di2004 · 31/08/2024 13:41

I highly doubt it was just an emotional affair.
If it was me I would hate him every time I looked at him.
sorry but when the trust is gone it’s gone.
look after yourself x