In-laws holidaying close by

Under circumstances like this, a spouse should never declare themselves to be in the middle, and he's manipulating you when he says that's the case.

When your partner is making an entirely reasonable request, has entirely reasonable needs that can easily be met, you are always firmly on their side. There is no middle.

You are not asking your husband to never see his parents again and that you will never go anywhere with them again. You need healthy separation and the opportunity for your family to do things as their own unit. Nothing you want or need is asking too much.

As for the fact that his parents are getting older, shut that fucking noise down right now. It's just another way of manipulating you. We are all getting older. You, him, me, anyone, could die within the next five minutes. Enough of that nonsense.

I have a very different view on this to most people here, but here goes.

It sounds to me like both of your families are at the opposite end of a spectrum here. The weird holiday hijacking is totally inappropriate, but grandparents being around for family birthdays it's totally normal IMO. It sounds like you've come from a very independent family and now have relatives scattered around the world, and have sadly lost your own parents, so you don't really have a village as such.

The real problem here isn't so much whether they are intrusive, but rather the difference between you and your husband over this. He sounds perfectly happy with the setup and so the other is that the two of you have a different view of how involved his parents should be.

Some people are in contact with their parents most days, drop in on eachother, holiday together etc. Others phone once a month and visit a couple of times a year. The difficulty is your expectations with this don't match.

Personally I see my parents maybe 3 times a week on average. They help out with the kids and are there for birthdays, Christmas etc. I either text or speak on the phone to them most days.

I don't think he should be pushed into seeing them less if he is trying hair with the situation, but equally your shouldn't be obliged to see them every time either. Or stay for 5 minutes and have a convenient place your been to be...

So what would DH reaction be if you put the recommended boundaries in place?

This is good advice OP.

You indulge them because you don't want to be rude.

BUT staying until midnight on a work night is rude. As is turning up without warning and filling your home with crap you don't want.

It's not rude to refuse to tolerate rudeness.

If they overstay their welcome, run a bath and go to bed. If they arrive without warning tell them you were going out and just crack on without them.

Don't be hospitable. Just say we did not expect you and have other plans.

I remember a pp saying her MiL used to answer the door with her coat on re: unexpected visitors.

If she wanted to see them it was lucky she'd just got home. If she didn't...what a shame she was just heading out...

But ultimately this all circles back to your DH who needs to have your back and understand this is not normal behaviour and it's not acceptable and if it continues it's going to be the opposite of being a close family - it will tear you apart.

As I have said, as an only I'm super close to my parents. But they give us space and as a result when we do (regularly) spend time with them it's always something to be looked forward to and enjoyed and not "fucking hell they are here again".

Great that you like it.

The OP DOESN'T like it.

I’d be telling DH they’ve ruined your family holiday by showing up uninvited. I’d be going nuclear at DH (his parents were very similar until one day it was the straw that broke the camels back).

Explain to DH that them randomly popping in uninvited is rude. He has to explain this to them.

There’s no reason for them to be involved in your birthday. If your DH wants them at his birthday, fine. Do the kids want to invite them to their birthdays?

They turn up uninvited and DH doesn’t want to turf them out? Well he can entertain them by himself. You can run yourself a lovely bubble bath and have an early night. They turn up in the afternoon? Don’t provide food. Serve up food for the four of you and crack on as usual.

They what to see you on a weekly basis? Well DH can take the kids over there on his own.

His mum is upset? Boohoo. YOURE an upset and you’re the woman he should be putting first. He should be having a chat with his mother and getting her to deeply apologise for gatecrashing your holiday!

“DH is a pacifist wimp and will do anything to avoid confrontation.”

Appalling.
You have my sympathy , OP.

Just to add, I'm an only child and very close to my parents.

They do not behave like this.

They are super welcome and important in our lives because they aren't intrusive and overbearing.

They love be 20 mins away but have never visited unannounced.

@ineedsomemoremetime

*They are almost 'elderly' now though and DH now refers to 'we may not have them for much longer'. Good genes run in his family though and I can't live with that mentality. Could go on for another 10+ years and by then the children will be adults.

Won't be doing another joint holiday for sure but cannot see a way out of all the sodding birthdays etc.where we are a 6. Then it descends into what feels like an interrogation of our lives. Again DH is fine with this as it is normal.

Difficult to get them to leave too. It's usually midnight, even on a work night.* *

As I posted above, what they have done on this holiday is so extreme, it does give you leverage to call time not just on holiday behaviour but more generally.

As a start point your DH needs to be told this is not normal. Far from it.

Ask him about his own childhood. I suspect he and his parents are close because they had space to bond as a family. I'll bet good money that he and his parents did not live with this level of intrusion from his grandparents. It's only "normal" because he's decided it is.

You need to be clear you can't continue to live this way. His parents age is irrelevant. The behaviour is not acceptable at 50 or 80.

You are not suggesting (at least for now) that they are not welcome in your lives.

But the unscheduled visits at home need to stop. As does the wasteful gifting.

When they are invited they need to leave at a reasonable time (especially on a school night).

Everyone needs to stop assuming that every birthday in the family needs to spent together. For your birthday especially you can absolutely put your foot down.

Holidays of course are sacrosanct. If they pull this stunt again all bets are off.

Your DH needs to understand that doing nothing isn't an option anymore because if he continues to allow you to feel smothered and a third wheel (whose feeling take second place to your IL's) in your family unit - then you'll take action.

Starting with going low contact with his parents. If he wants to see them fine. But you won't. When they visit you'll go out, taking the children if you see fit.

He can choose to reduce the contact to reasonable levels which you are comfortable participating in or you won't participate at all.

In short the current status quo will not continue. He's going to have to make some choices and ultimately if he chooses his parents feelings over yours then it's a moot point because there won't be a family unit as it exists now as you'll be paying a visit to a shit hot divorce lawyer - cos you're utterly done after this latest stunt of theirs.

Show your husband this thread. He needs a massive wake up call to understand that the relationship he has with his parents overstepping their boundaries is nuts and he needs to put a stop to it.

MIL rang her son every morning at work "for a chat" and he told her anything she asked. He didn't see anything wrong, he'd been brought up to have no private life and hadn't considered that I might like one. It was normal for him to tell his mum absolutely everything, he never questioned why she wanted to know everything that was happening in his life. It came to light when someone I vaguely knew asked me about something that should have been known only to me and DH. Yes, he'd told his mother who had told half the city but fortunately not my mother or I'd still be digging myself out of that hole.

MIL was an interrogator, endless questions about trivial things and to me every conversation felt like a never endling search for information. My husband humoured me to start with then she really ramped up the questioning until even he acknowledged that it felt weird. After that the default was to tell her nothing until after the fact.

It is like full blown stalking. They're following you to different countries. Going to places they think you'll be and looking for you. It's like that bloke in "You". I bet they spent that other holiday hunting you down but never found you.

I could not live this. I think you should send a message to MIL examining how much she's suffocating you. "DH told me you were upset I didn't go to the fair today becuase I knew you would bump into us. I understand it may be upsetting to think that I'm avoiding you. But I really need you to try to think how it feels for me to never get time with my own husband and children without you. We are 15000 miles from home, and you have come to the exact same place, at the exact same time. It is so intrusive and uncomfortable for me. I'm really hurt you couldn't just let us have a family holiday without you. I love you both and I don't want to grow to resent any time we spend together becuase of this kind of behaviour so i need you to let us have our family time and only join when invited."

Dh problem.

Creepy, weird and boundaryless. I feel that a big problem here however, is your DH. He is so enmeshed and influenced by them that he cannot see objectively and take on board how abnormal, intrusive and intense this is for you. I mean you cried at the end of a holiday with them before you had kids? That is a very strong emotional reaction, you were breaking down with the level of internal stress and unhappiness you were supressing.

Their behaviour is not normal and unacceptable. I just don't think they understand and I don't know how you fix this unfortunately. I really hope you manage to talk to your DH and reach a solution.

This happened to us - a deadly combination of overbearing MIL and people pleasing DH.

Came to a head when they invited themselves to stay for a month. DH offered our bedroom. It nearly ended our marriage. We came through it but I am no contact with them now and will never holiday with them again.

They need to be put on a strict information diet.

Re the birthday issues, can you break the cycle by travelling to your family/somewhere else entirely for some of them? And don’t have them coming to you. You go to them and leave when it suits you so they can’t stay til bloody midnight.

You need DH on board. If MIL gets upset, so what? He needs to be more concerned about upsetting you.

In Mumsnet it is people often feel over crowded by their families. I think families are supposed to be close. It takes a village to parent a child. I invite my parents and in laws on holiday with us. I love the kids having a close connection with their wider family. I think it will be beneficial for all. However if you are needing a break and want to holiday just as a four that is also perfectly valid and your DP needs to tell them the next holiday is just for you as a four. Don't forget one day you will be the Grandma and you will be really looking forward to sharing in the Grandchildrens lives.

Can't you give them inaccurate information when it comes to holidays? Say you've booked a holiday to Tenerife, can't you tell them you've booked to go to Malta instead? Or would your dh be the weakest link here?

My in laws were similar but not as bad as yours and it took many years before they respected our boundaries. You need to start small because they've had 20 years of this behaviour.

Book a weekend away for your next birthday without telling them and celebrate with your immediate family. You can invite them for a cuppa and birthday cake at a local cafe on a separate day etc.

It will take time but you need to put small boundaries in place first. Don't cut them out immediately but replace long visits with shorter ones, home visits with restaurants etc. Kids have a class party at friends house but we'll see you for tea next Friday night etc.

So they were stalking you then.

Stop telling them stuff that is none of their business. Seriously put a complete and utter stop to it.

If they ask why you're not talking to them or telling them stuff, be honest and say that when you did tell them stuff they ended up crashing your holidays, plural, when you really wanted a break with just DH and the kids.

If they can't handle that, then that's a 'them' issue to resolve and you keep going with whatever you're doing.

Please make sure that you have gates and a video doorbell that you can, if necessary, pretend to be out if they call by. I'd start pretending to be out more and more and say "Oh I do wish you would have phoned to see if we'd be in. I'm sorry but we won't be back for some time. See you again soon." as this whole situation is of their making. They keep infringing on your time so push back.