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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask if you believe radical remission is possible?

173 replies

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 19:18

I’ve just read this book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Radical-Remission-Surviving-Cancer-Against/dp/0062268740

It’s written by an American researcher, lecturer and oncologist and charts her experiences of gathering cases of radical remission from all over the world. It’s presented in quite a scientific way & she charts the 9 things that all the people who went into radical remission & had in common. It’s fascinating too.

Ironically it was recommended to me when my dad was dying of bowel cancer - end stage for him.

It’s a real book of hope (but not false hope) as it charts a largely unreported area of health - and an idea that people survive and thrive even end stage 4 cancer.

So am I being unreasonable to believe? Obviously these are real case studies too as she felt it was a totally unreported area of medicine but it feels like believing that you can heal from cancer is not a mainstream belief at all - it’s almost contraversial and held up as false hope I think.

Intererested in thoughts!

OP posts:
PaminaMozart · 30/08/2024 20:41

But she is very clear to say that she isn’t trying to create false hope.

You are being incredibly naive. You really think that some desperate people who are staring death in the face won't grasp at straws, any straws?

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:41

Iwasafool · 30/08/2024 20:37

So does she consider if it is the convential treatment that has caused the remission?

It reminds me of the Lilian Board case, she was a British runner in the 60s,she was an Olympic medal winner, she got cancer and went to some alternative clinic, maybe in Germany where it was all healthy eating and spring water. She died. If I remember correctly she was still competing just a few months before she died. It was very sad, such a fit healthy young woman who died so quickly.

Show quote history

She does mention that at the start yes.

She isn’t saying that any of this is fact- she presents it as a set of results from her research- not an opinion.

OP posts:
mynameiscalypso · 30/08/2024 20:40

God, that list of 9 things is worse than I thought. 'Having strong reasons for living'?!? Yeah because nobody who has died from cancer died because that had crap reasons for living.

Pippifer · 30/08/2024 20:39

I said something like that to a Dr friend once and he said if that happens then basically the individual was wrongly diagnosed.

I’ve since had two loved ones diagnosed with stage 4 cancers and would agree if people get better then it’s wrong diagnoses. And it’s complete bullshit to pretend that a disease as vile as stage 4 cancer can be cured by diet and lifestyle.

ImWearingPantaloons · 30/08/2024 20:38

Bullshit grifter shite.

That is all.

Iwasafool · 30/08/2024 20:37

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:19

Yes quite a lot of them. She talks about that too.

Show quote history

So does she consider if it is the convential treatment that has caused the remission?

It reminds me of the Lilian Board case, she was a British runner in the 60s,she was an Olympic medal winner, she got cancer and went to some alternative clinic, maybe in Germany where it was all healthy eating and spring water. She died. If I remember correctly she was still competing just a few months before she died. It was very sad, such a fit healthy young woman who died so quickly.

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:35

PaminaMozart · 30/08/2024 20:31

I find this quite sickening. Coincidences and selective data selections being stitched together to create a web of false hope...

But she is very clear to say that she isn’t trying to create false hope.

Why can’t we have discussions about these kinds of things?

Like I said, my Dad died horribly in 6 months of bowel cancer. I think it’s important to look at everything because the ‘cure’ for cancer could lie anywhere.

OP posts:
Quodraceratops · 30/08/2024 20:35

Sounds like vague unmeasurable bullshit. None of those concepts can be externally measures so how can anyone say they make a difference? What mechanism are you proposing? 'herbs and supplements' is pretty vague - there is a whole class of chemotherapy drugs that were originally plant extracts (Vinca alkaloids, extract from Madagascan periwinkle).

AgileGreenSeal · 30/08/2024 20:33

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:30

“During the course of her dissertation research, she focused her attention on two groups. The first group was radical remission survivors. She asked the radical remission survivors this question: “why do you think you healed?” The second group she interviewed was alternative healers who treat cancer.
From her research she found 75 factors could account for the healing. Nine of these factors occurred with the greatest frequency. Her book outlines these nine factors, which are:

  1. Changing your diet
  2. Taking control of your health
  3. Following your intuition
  4. Using herbs and supplements
  5. Releasing suppressed emotions
  6. Increasing positive emotions
  7. Embracing social support
  8. Deepening your spiritual connection
  9. Having strong reasons for living”
Show quote history

Thanks for this 👍

PaminaMozart · 30/08/2024 20:31

I find this quite sickening. Coincidences and selective data selections being stitched together to create a web of false hope...

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:30

AgileGreenSeal · 30/08/2024 20:27

“she charts the 9 things that all the people who went into radical remission & had in common”

I wonder what they are? 🤔

“During the course of her dissertation research, she focused her attention on two groups. The first group was radical remission survivors. She asked the radical remission survivors this question: “why do you think you healed?” The second group she interviewed was alternative healers who treat cancer.
From her research she found 75 factors could account for the healing. Nine of these factors occurred with the greatest frequency. Her book outlines these nine factors, which are:

  1. Changing your diet
  2. Taking control of your health
  3. Following your intuition
  4. Using herbs and supplements
  5. Releasing suppressed emotions
  6. Increasing positive emotions
  7. Embracing social support
  8. Deepening your spiritual connection
  9. Having strong reasons for living”
OP posts:
Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:28

WitchyBits · 30/08/2024 20:26

There is a dividend in Netflix about bluestones and the secret to long life and that's is pretty fascinating. A man that was given a terminal diagnosis gave up the rat race and went home to Italy to stay with daily and his cancer disappeared. The docu looks at what the places where people live the longest have in common. Defo worth a watch. But it seems to be a very varied diet with lots of beans, fish and healthy fats. Fermented foods. Growing your own food and gardening, A strong community and having purpose/volunteering in your life , exercising and being generally happy and accepting about your life and not being negative.

That sounds similar to the themes in the book. Is that Blue Zones that you mean the documentary is about?

OP posts:
AgileGreenSeal · 30/08/2024 20:27

“she charts the 9 things that all the people who went into radical remission & had in common”

I wonder what they are? 🤔

Arraminta · 30/08/2024 20:26

My MIL was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer that I think was also found in her lymph nodes? She had a lumpectomy and radiotherapy. She went on to live a further 36 years and actually died of something totally unconnected. I don't know how common that is though?

WitchyBits · 30/08/2024 20:26

There is a dividend in Netflix about bluestones and the secret to long life and that's is pretty fascinating. A man that was given a terminal diagnosis gave up the rat race and went home to Italy to stay with daily and his cancer disappeared. The docu looks at what the places where people live the longest have in common. Defo worth a watch. But it seems to be a very varied diet with lots of beans, fish and healthy fats. Fermented foods. Growing your own food and gardening, A strong community and having purpose/volunteering in your life , exercising and being generally happy and accepting about your life and not being negative.

Pomegranatecarnage · 30/08/2024 20:25

I believe it’s peddling false hope.

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:24

SewingBees · 30/08/2024 20:22

So you're advocating that she should selectively report?

Show quote history

The religious man in question has since been arrested for sexual assault.

The case study is about a man in remission from a glioblastoma brain tumour.

OP posts:
SewingBees · 30/08/2024 20:22

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:21

Yea, that John of God case study made me feel very uncomfortable too. I think she should have removed that one!

Show quote history

So you're advocating that she should selectively report?

Iwasafool · 30/08/2024 20:22

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 19:57

I do think it’s the case that people get very funny about talking about cancer and this kind of thing.

My Dad, auntie, 2 grandparents, long term family friend all died of various cancers - none of it was nice. My grandmother had a tumour that grew outside her body- it was awful.

I just think there should be more research into these people - was it chance? Or was it really linked to some of the things they did? One man in Japan is still alive 30 years later after being sent home to die.

My great aunt had breast cancer in the 1930s, no one knew then but we have the BRCA1 gene in the family. She had a mastectomy and lived for another 40 years. How did she do it? Well she told me she said a Novena to the Virgin Mary, she found the tumour "just in time" on the ninth night So there you are, that's what you need to do.

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:21

Riverhillhouse · 30/08/2024 20:17

I have read the book OP as I have a stage 4 diagnosis. I do agree with you that she is very clear in her introduction that she isn’t saying these things will definitely work, more that all the people interviewed had these 9 things in common. I have to say though that some of the case studies seemed a bit bonkers to me- there was a man that basically recorded his response to every single food (in terms of cancer markers). I can’t remember how he did this but it seemed pretty joyless. There was also a man that breathed in air during the dawn chorus as this is apparently when the air is more oxygenated?! I felt there were a few holes in the case studies & I forget now but I didn’t leave feeling that convinced.

Yea, that John of God case study made me feel very uncomfortable too. I think she should have removed that one!

OP posts:
Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:19

Iwasafool · 30/08/2024 20:16

Were any of these people having conventional treatment alongside these 9 rules?

Show quote history

Yes quite a lot of them. She talks about that too.

OP posts:
Litlgreyrabbit · 30/08/2024 20:18

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/08/2024 20:09

Fucking grifter profiting from desperation. Have you bought her 'healing' pack of a beeswax candle, some soap and herbal tea for 70-odd dollars? You even get a piece of blue ribbon that you can reuse. Or when that's proven to be fucking useless, you can send a grieving spouse a book of 'Proof of Heaven', some herbal tea, a candle and a fucking bath bomb.

Or you can pay shitloads (two and a half grand) to become an approved coach to have desperate people pay you hear you tell them that other people have had remission and if they pay you and buy the bathbombs and shit, you can make a living from their terror? They'll have to pay you 280 plus bucks each for the privilege - and then another 390 when it doesn't fucking work because they've done it 'wrong' because they've still got fucking cancer.

It's a fucking MLM.

Edited

None of that sounds good, can you share a link? I’ve googled and looked for her candles and bath bombs and can’t find anything?

SewingBees · 30/08/2024 20:18

Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:09

I’m trying to comment on cases of radical remission.

It seems to be that in some cases the body creates cancer and then spontaneously gets rid of it too.

Show quote history

That may be the case but logic has nothing to do with it.

Original poster
Edenspirits73 · 30/08/2024 20:18

user1471453601 · 30/08/2024 20:09

Why do you say "obviously" when you assert that the cases were real? Because the author is a doctor? The author also had a book to sell.

maybe you wouldn't put giving false hope above making a profit, but how do you know the author is?

As a survivor of three cancer diagnosis, I really hate peddlers of false hope, or the "fight" brigade. Like if I'd died, it would have been because I didn't fight hard enough? Trust me, I didn't do anything like fight in all three cases. I just did what various consultants told me to do.

Like millions before me, some survived, some didn't. I'm pretty sure no one can guarantee what they did, or didnt, do saved their lives.

I have no reason to assume the cases aren’t real. She’s a scientist and researcher. I don’t think she’s a money making charlatan - it’s pretty grim if she is and a grim thing to do.

Her intro is all about everything you have mentioned and she’s clear that she isn’t a peddler of false hope.

i’m just interested in it as I have lost a lot of people to cancer. I am interested in peoples stories and I think that’s fine - we get very few stories of survival and hope. Why is that a bad thing?

OP posts:
Riverhillhouse · 30/08/2024 20:17

I have read the book OP as I have a stage 4 diagnosis. I do agree with you that she is very clear in her introduction that she isn’t saying these things will definitely work, more that all the people interviewed had these 9 things in common. I have to say though that some of the case studies seemed a bit bonkers to me- there was a man that basically recorded his response to every single food (in terms of cancer markers). I can’t remember how he did this but it seemed pretty joyless. There was also a man that breathed in air during the dawn chorus as this is apparently when the air is more oxygenated?! I felt there were a few holes in the case studies & I forget now but I didn’t leave feeling that convinced.