Primary child sat only with non-English speaking children

My year 5 teacher did a form of this. I was very academic & well behaved and got parked with a the naughtiest boy in class who struggled with maths &

Lots of teachers will claim this doesn't happen but my mum, cousin & sister (all teachers) have all agreed its a standard tactic to take "difficult" children and pair them with "easy" ones in the hope that a) good behaviour will rub off b) academic child will support weaker learner etc

This happened my daughter. I decided not to intervene at first but ended up having to as they were all whispering to each other in their own language and she was left out. There is no way I would wait until Halloween. She’s told you about it because she is unhappy.

The OP did.
The child fears the kids at her table will speak together in their language and she will be excluded.

I’d go in and mention it to the teacher as others have said in a polite way and not as a complaint, just so the teacher is aware how your daughter is feeling and has a chance to either make a change or explain it’s for a very short time. I went in one time (many years ago) when my similar aged son, fairly new to a school was moved away from the few friends he’d made because classes were being split for the next year. I nearly cried in front of the headteacher but he was lovely, understood and moved my son back with his pals.

At think it is worth bearing in mind these children could be extremely bright, I mean at maths or another subject. By half term they could be absolutely thriving. I think the teacher is going to be in a tricky position if people start stipulating how many children with ESOL they want their child sat with

Oh God, this. In primary one of my DDs was used several times as a 'bolster' between 2 badly behaved boys, to her detriment. Her work was damaged, she was shoved, kicked etc. The teacher admitted this was fairly common practice, but did eventually move her.

My oldest DD is in 6th form, and last year was sat with a couple of class clown lads by her teacher - after several weeks of them rocking the desks, shadow boxing, shouting at each other over her head etc she asked to move. He told her if he did that his life would be hell as "imagine how much worse their behaviour would be without your influence." 🙄 If she's put with them again next month I'll be having a word.

Yes both myself and my husband have been In this position age 7 and 9…not in English that’s our native language. And 1 year was enough for us both too

@evilharpy

You might find more relevant advice if you post in craicnet rather than AIBU.

Exactly. Why get so defensive?
My daughter has been in a similar situation, where she was seated next to someone to provide „good influence“.
It did have a negative impact on her.
No matter how much they „move around“ or see their friends at lunchtime, they still have to do quite a bit of work with the child sitting next to them. In our daughter‘s case it was a boy who was just messing about and refusing to do any work, and she ended up feeling responsible.

You really don't like parents do you? Op hardly suggested she was going to go in all guns blazing.

Hopefully a brief chat will be enough to resolve things

I don't think you're being unreasonable. In year 5 and 6 at primary I was sat at a set table of 4 and we had every lesson like that, sat with the same people. We did mix widely at break times, but in the class room I could really only speak to the 3 other kids on my table. If I was the only English speaking one and the others all communicated in their own language I'd have hated it and felt really lonely. I don't think it's inappropriate to ask for a more even balance between English and non-English speakers sitting next to your child. As others have said, it's not your child's responsibility to teach the other children.

My academic but quiet daughter got placed to a non English speaker and given an iPad to help with translations. Did her the absolute world of good. Came out of year six with amazing SATs scores and much more confidence in her own abilities.

Whatever the reason for your child’s unhappiness, it’s best to discuss with the teacher to see how both yourself and the school can support.

I would raise it with the teacher to say that your child is concerned that she will be excluded socially.

Who said anything about being excluded socially? I don't think OP did?

I would complain.

Scotland here but our tables weren't rotated at all during the year unless someone needed to be moved for behaviour issues.

Also, most of the group work was done within the table not with others in the class as some schools seem to do it.

If that is the case for you - i would complain that it is unreasonable for her to be the only English speaker for group work.

Thank you to your DD. When I arrived in the Uk my classmates were spectacularly unhelpful and unfriendly. This was at a pretentious London girls school - very popular with some on Mn!

I got my own back when it came to foreign language lessons - one of which was my mother tongue. I was permanently top of the class - did I help any of them - not a chance!

So are you saying you work as a teacher in Ireland and are an expert on primary school teaching there or do you work in an entirely different country??

At my son's primary, HERE in Ireland, children only get moved once each half term and the seat they're allocated is where they sit all day. They don't swap groups several times a day so I can understand why the OPs daughter might feel anxious about being sat next to children who aren't fluent in English yet.

I think you are assuming your children will be asked to help and support but you really can’t know the level of English of those children sitting next to her. In many countries children start to learn English very early on or parents could have paid for private lessons ahead of their move to the U.K.

I’m raising a bilingual child and know many children than speak more than one language, sometimes they can be initially shy speaking in their “second” language but in fact understand everything.

I would reassure your daughter that you will intervene if it becomes a problem but would encourage her to keep an open mind about the situation.

Just because your school does something doesn’t mean all do.

My daughter is multilingual and has been used to mentor other kids and help the teacher. In our case, she loved being a mentor but this is not the case for all children.

If your daughter is unhappy with situation speak to the teacher.

It would be better practice for the teacher to disperse the ESL students among all the tables so they would be exposed to more spoken English.

I'd raise the seating arrangement with the teacher, but my angle would be what, if any, expectations the teacher has when it comes to your child at this particular table - specifically, will she be expected to support the others with work that requires knowledge of English.

If you detect any waffling or attempts to flatter you by referring to your child's academic standing or responsible, quiet nature (which would be code for yes, she is there to be a TA) or an outright yes, this is what I expect, I'd make it crystal clear to the teacher that your child will in no way, shape, or form be up for the role of TESL TA in the classroom, and that she is there to be taught to her level and make academic progress. Tell the teacher she will not translate or guide her fellow students through work requiring English. This is work the teacher should be doing, or work the school should hire a TA for.

Be very clear that you are advocating for your child and will be monitoring this situation. Be very clear that your child likes her fellow students and hopes she will make friendships within the group, and you greatly encourage her in that, but her role in school is to learn, not to provide academic or language support.

For us it takes a good 6 months for children to listen and begin to really acquire language. The guidance is to throw children into the learning environment and not keep children within groups of their own language for learning.
We do not find there is any jump in EAL children and they are still monitored throughout primary as one of the usually lower performing groups along with White British boys. After language skills comes writing a much harder skill, maths is usually a more even playing field. But it is often difficult to identify SEND needs and other needs until some language is acquired.

If she tells you that she is unhappy about the arrangement then you need to fight this on your daughters behalf. It is unacceptable to put her on a table with no children that speak English as it can lead to isolation and a negative feeling towards school.

Seek clarification on the set up from the teacher first though.

Yes, another conversation with your daughter to try to determine the exact set up.
Then approach the teacher if you feel that the situation is adversely affecting your daughter.

Perhaps it depends whether tables are arranged by ability, or what the rationale is. If they’re there because they are of similar ability, I think you might have to encourage your daughter to try it for a while. If it’s random, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask if she can be near people she can interact more easily with.

I would raise it with the teacher.

teachers often use well behaved, academically inclined girls
to facilitate learning for other students. It’s wrong and they need to be called out on it when it happens.

that may not be the case here, but if your daughter feels isolated and like her learning is being impacted, it is time to have a conversation. Go in willing to listen, but also be ready to advocate if needed.