Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Primary child sat only with non-English speaking children

210 replies

evilharpy · 30/08/2024 14:02

I don't know if IABU so grateful for any opinions.

Daughter is in second to last year of primary and has just gone back to school (we are in Ireland, before anyone says it's too early) and they've been allocated to their table groups. The class is maybe 1/4 ESL children, 3/4 native speakers. She is on one long table with only children who have fairly recently moved here and don't speak much English sitting beside or really anywhere near her, certainly not close enough to talk to or pair up with for activities. Several of them are from the same country so speak each other's language.

Now I have no problem at all with ESL children being sat with or paired up with native speakers, how else are they supposed to learn, and I know the purpose of lessons is not to sit chatting to your friends, but she is worried she will be isolated and that she will end up spending more time helping them than doing her own work. She is very academic, if that's relevant, but is not at all prone to drama or moaning so the fact that she has told me she's worried about it has made me concerned.

WIBU to raise this with the teacher and ask if the tables could be mixed up a bit? Has anyone had a similar experience and it's worked out ok for the child?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 19:47

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:32

Tbh, you sound like a nightmare parent.

We had really great teachers mostly all of the way through for both kids. Approachable, compassionate and happy to answer questions even when they couldn’t ultimately accommodate a request. It really made the few that were hostile to parents (and unsurprisingly students too) stand out.

Sharptonguedwoman · 03/09/2024 14:23

Seashor · 30/08/2024 14:14

I have hardly been able to wait for all the moaning school threads!
Another case of parents butting their nose in without knowing the facts or class dynamics!
My class have their set place. They move around numerous and I mean numerous times a day, sitting next to other children. They work individually, in pairs in threes, age related to that subject, mixed ability, next to a friend, beside people they haven’t worked with before. There are multiple reasons on how children are seated.
I’d love to tell you all how to do your jobs with my zero experience. I just know that I would be able to tell you all what you need to do.

Teacher here too but retired. The problem is that you know your pattern and you could explain it to concerned parents. No-one knows what's happening in OP's daughter's class and that is the worry.
Personally, I'd give it a week to allow all subjects and groups to rotate through. Then if things aren't great, I'd ask for an appointment with the teacher and/or the head. Kids can help other kids, sure. Not all the time though.

SpaceyLacey · 03/09/2024 13:58

The pushy parent usually gets result. The quiet don’t-make-waves parent gets trod on. Fact.

Poppins21 · 03/09/2024 07:58

mumedu · 03/09/2024 07:37

Teachers will naturally be more guarded if parents are aggressive and entitled. It all depends on the tone and attitude.

Aggressive and entitled…if a parent raises a concern about their child at school?

my daughter as I said is multilingual and always offers to help other kids but if she was put in an uncomfortable position her teacher would be my first port of call- this is not entitled and aggressive- rather my role as a parent.

But I agree with previous posters I would still think a teacher should communicate with me on a professional manner to ensure the best outcome for my child.

You do not have to like me as a parent but you do need to work with me.

DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 07:38

mumedu · 03/09/2024 07:35

#bekind

?

DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 07:38

mumedu · 03/09/2024 07:37

Teachers will naturally be more guarded if parents are aggressive and entitled. It all depends on the tone and attitude.

Well, quite.

mumedu · 03/09/2024 07:37

DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 07:04

So you want parents to be less open with you otherwise you’ll be less open with them? 🤔

Teachers will naturally be more guarded if parents are aggressive and entitled. It all depends on the tone and attitude.

mumedu · 03/09/2024 07:35

DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 07:04

So you want parents to be less open with you otherwise you’ll be less open with them? 🤔

#bekind

DefyingGravitas · 03/09/2024 07:04

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:04

You are less open with them and only tell them the bits they want to hear.

Edited

So you want parents to be less open with you otherwise you’ll be less open with them? 🤔

Poppins21 · 03/09/2024 04:13

Do state schools get extra money for ESL kids? Do they have separate English lessons when other kids are having regular English lessons?

Is there a set way of doing this?

in the school my daughter just left they did 50/50 English and language x but when they did English or language x classes the kids were streamlined either into second language or native speaker for each language.

She has started a new school with English and a new language and she is having additional one to one classes during reading time whilst being seated with the native speakers of the new language rather than native English speakers.

just wondering no criticism 😀

WearyAuldWumman · 02/09/2024 21:37

EdithBond · 01/09/2024 10:36

I’m shocked by some of the posts on this thread. The logic some are arguing is that if a kid’s new to a school, then other kids shouldn’t have to sit next to them, but should be moved away to sit with their existing clique of friends.

What happened to making new people feel welcome and being friendly?

Of course kids aren’t being expected to teach other kids instead of the teacher. But surely they should make them feel welcome and be friendly, by smiling and chatting in their own language (even if the new kids doesn’t understand). And asking if they need any help. It only takes a few weeks for kids to settle in and start learning a language FFS.

So much for treating others as you’d like to be treated yourself. What happened to kindness?

Speaking as a teacher who has worked with children who are new to English for many years (and whose own father was new to English) that's not what I'm taking from the comments at all.

In most schools, either a new pupil will be assigned a "buddy" or a group of pupils will be asked to look after them.

The concern in the OP's original post, I thought, was that there was possibly an imbalance in her daughter's group. If this is the case, it won't be good for any of the children in the group.

So far as the kids with ESOL are concerned, they need to be with native speakers for some areas of work (so that English can be modelled for them) and for other pieces of work it's helpful if they can discuss new concepts in their native language.

Similarly, the OP's daughter and others need to have the opportunity to discuss some matters with children at their own level of English. It's a balancing act.

FWIW, as well as my teaching experience and knowing of my dad's experience, I've also had the experience of being a student abroad learning to speak another language.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 21:29

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:32

Tbh, you sound like a nightmare parent.

And proud of it!

Grin
ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 21:29

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:31

There is nothing unprofessional about this.

There is everything unprofessional about designating someone as "that parent" and telling parents they mustn't question St Miss.

BodyLamp · 02/09/2024 20:42

Seashor · 30/08/2024 14:14

I have hardly been able to wait for all the moaning school threads!
Another case of parents butting their nose in without knowing the facts or class dynamics!
My class have their set place. They move around numerous and I mean numerous times a day, sitting next to other children. They work individually, in pairs in threes, age related to that subject, mixed ability, next to a friend, beside people they haven’t worked with before. There are multiple reasons on how children are seated.
I’d love to tell you all how to do your jobs with my zero experience. I just know that I would be able to tell you all what you need to do.

Defensive much?!

viques · 02/09/2024 20:38

There needs to be at least one other native English speaker at the table because one of the best ways and most productive ways EAL children learn is by listening to quality discussions from competent English users. If the OPs child is the only one speaking English as their first language then the teacher is missing a huge trick in supporting the EAL childrens learning.

This is emphasising good practice but also a way of approaching the discussion with the class teacher in a positive way.

Ethylred · 02/09/2024 20:34

Seated, not sat. Your child should be teaching them furriners correct English.

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:32

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 20:17

Shouldn't you be professional at all times?

Tbh, you sound like a nightmare parent.

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:31

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 20:17

Shouldn't you be professional at all times?

There is nothing unprofessional about this.

Wheelz46 · 02/09/2024 20:26

@mumedu I realise it hasn't been a term, it was you that mentioned waiting a term before mentioning something!

So do you also believe a child who is constantly being kicked under the table and being constantly disruptive to the same child day in and day out should just put up with it, that's life? Nobody should have to put up with that in the workplace or anywhere for that matter.

Also back to the OP point, where in the workplace would someone generally be in the situation that OP child is?

Also teaching children that they do not have to suffer silently is equally as important!

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 20:17

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:04

You are less open with them and only tell them the bits they want to hear.

Edited

Shouldn't you be professional at all times?

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:07

Wheelz46 · 02/09/2024 07:20

@mumedu so if your child comes home in tears everyday after school, feels physically sick at the thought of going each morning because of a situation happening at school, you would expect a parent to seriously not say anything or just suck it up for a term?

It hasn't been a term - its literally been a few days. Parents need to teach children resilience and how to cope with less than perfect situations. That's life. That's what they will have to deal with in the workplace and the real world.

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:06

HotCrossBunplease · 02/09/2024 00:27

Wow you sound really bitter and hostile. That’s not a good look when term has barely started. Is your mental health OK?

You are outrageous.

mumedu · 02/09/2024 20:04

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 06:56

Why wouldn’t she want to be the parent teachers dread?

What happens when a parent is that parent?

You are less open with them and only tell them the bits they want to hear.

Wheelz46 · 02/09/2024 07:20

@mumedu so if your child comes home in tears everyday after school, feels physically sick at the thought of going each morning because of a situation happening at school, you would expect a parent to seriously not say anything or just suck it up for a term?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 02/09/2024 06:56

mumedu · 01/09/2024 18:48

Teacher here. YES, please do nothing for now. Seating does change now and then (or quite regularly jn some classes). You really don't want to be the sort of parent that teachers dread. If things are the same by half-term, do speak to the teacher.

Why wouldn’t she want to be the parent teachers dread?

What happens when a parent is that parent?