To not understand the negativity about schools in England

@garlictwist inner city schools often outperform many others, it's easy to recruit teachers as they want to live in/near the city.

Sleepy seaside towns and former industrial towns with poor transport links that people don't want to live in, high levels of unemployment due to seasonal work, high levels of parental illiteracy and disengaged youth without the activities available to them that inner city children have is the issue nowadays. In city's you have a wider mix of well off / well rounded children to dilute the poor behaviour of those often being raised in the most challenging of circumstances.

If by 'inner city' you mean London, schools in London massively outperform the rest of the country.

Not all schools are failing. It depends where you live to an extent as well. Cities seem to fair less well. Large class sizes. Large schools. We have always been rural and both primary and secondary schools (been to a few due to moving) have been good. Secondary really supported my eldest to perform well in GCSE’s. We have been really happy with the schools.

I have been so impressed with my kids' schooling in England. Good facilities, great teachers and interesting and engaging topics. They've both made good progress and enjoyed their school life. And we are in the inner city. Not some leafy grammar school area. I don't think it's all doom and gloom.

In no particular order;

Lack of funding

A culture that values high exam results and treats anyone who doesn't get a load of top grades as lacking.

An inflexible curriculum

Parents who will never believe their little Johnny/Jemimah are wrong.

Parents competing with one another via their child's esults.

Teachers who behave like they're the only people in the world with a tough job.

Lack of respect towards teachers, especially following COVID which has led some parents to believe they know better.

Teachers who have no understanding of SEN and aren't willing to learn.

Those are the negatives.

On the positive side , both of my children have had a good education overall. The eldest particularly as her secondary school was brilliant.

The youngest was ok (,2 years left) apart from the appalling primary school who failed to act on my concerns about his reading. I then had the joy of getting him an EHCP and funding for a good specialist dyslexia school. If I had not done that I don't know what would have happened. He passed all of his GCSEs thanks to that school. But it wasn't easy and the primary school should have acted previously.

Here's why;

• there is no inclusion. Kids with any additional needs are kicked out to protect "ratings"
• there is a massive emphasis on academic performance from a young age (e.g. 5). If your child isn't meeting "standards" then there is a "problem"
• rules. Kids have zero autonomy. For example, children in secondary school (teens) cannot get their nails done, colour their hair, etc. This is wrong and has an impact on basic human rights.

Yeah, the scourge of SEND children and their parents. Shocking.

IME lots of British schools are riven with totally unchecked bullying & violence (under the guise of ‘rough and tumble play’ and ‘fostering resilience’) underpinned by a culture of casual sadism from adults. Also the obsession with enforcing total compliance in the wearing of uncomfortable and impractical uniform.

^

This is a bit another brick in the wall

*parenting, they aren't patenting anything!

Teachers are ground down, defeated, told they mustn't expect obedience from Timmy because he's got PDA, Millie's parents have a private doctor telling them she needs all sorts of adjustments (all of which have resulted in things getting worse, not better). Repeat offenders get sent to the head for hot chocolate and chats. Parents insist their parenting is absolutely in no way a factor in anything and school are getting everything wrong - they can't possibly know what they are doing with a child like theirs (i mean they've only taught 2000 children in the last decade, they couldn't possibly know).

^

This rings so true.

Nephew has PDA and it's exactly what you've said. No obedience expected from him, so it's a free for all. He's totally in control. Like Lord of the Flies. He's 10 years old.

Brother and SIL will not accept any responsibility for his behaviour, or even try to parent him because, as we know, he's got PDA. In no way is their patenting a factor.

Because brits love to moan?

There are probably some very shit schools which make this justifiable.

Others probably less so.

"Children who have disabilities should have allowances made, that's the law."
It isn't the children with disabilities who cause the problems. It's the disaffected ones who can't be bothered to learn and would rather carry on chatting, doing their hair, or just annoying someone. It is also the law that schools have to provide a balanced curriculum for everyone, even if those who aren't interested.

Definitely the underfunding of school and public sector and cost of living impacting everything and everyone has skewed people’s perception of education in the UK and it is genuinely made things more difficult.

Overall what is sad is the lack of appreciation of free education that is of a pretty amazing standard on a global scale and the opportunities that can come of it - I find those that have experience poor education in other countries are in awe of UK education. However it’s easier (sadly) to spot the faults when you have the privilege of it with zero comparison to anything else.

Yes lots does need to change about UK education. But in hindsight it’s a good system that once worked so much better than it does now.

We don't in real life though. More than half the adults I know are teachers due to a combination of me being one and my hobby (am dram) being one that seems to attract teachers in hordes. Obviously, as with any professional job, there are stresses and strains and points in the year where things get pretty rough. But by and large most of us range from mostly content to loving our jobs.

I think schools are worse than they used to be due to shortages of teachers. But still better than many other countries. They do need to improve a lot though.

But schools vary so much. Let’s be honest - it’s a lottery. Just like everything else. Some children have access to a good school, some people can access an NHS dentist, etc.

@Lancrelady80 I completely appreciate what you're saying about how appallingly the Ofsted inspectors behave, but how do we raise concerns? When it's glaringly obvious that there's a big problem with a
school, who can we speak to? When the school won't engage, the governors don't reply to letters, and the DfE and
LA have washed their hands of any concerns as the school is a stand alone academy what can you do? At the moment, nothing. Great teachers leave, pupils let down and there's nothing we can do. That's the problem with education. No one is listening. The teachers have said over and over and over again what the problems are and get slated for jt. Parents who try to support the teachers get slated for it. I don't know what else to do. I can understand why teachers are leaving in their droves.

IME lots of British schools are riven with totally unchecked bullying & violence (under the guise of ‘rough and tumble play’ and ‘fostering resilience’) underpinned by a culture of casual sadism from adults. Also the obsession with enforcing total compliance in the wearing of uncomfortable and impractical uniform.

This!! Classes too big and not enough support staff.

I think a lot has changed in recent years.

My DS went to a small village primary with only 120 children across 7 years. The teachers were generally good, the environment was happy, safe and friendly (2012-2019).

However the secondary school offered (2019) 'required improvement', bullying was rife, teaching was generally poor and even Ofsted said it wasn't safe.

Under-investment over the last 10 years, soaring SN with insufficient support, and behaviour that has deteriorated since covid, mean a lot of secondary schools are barely coping.

It seems crazy to me that OFSTED are ignoring schools in crisis. Isn't it their job to make sure standards are met?

No. OFSTED have been very clear that it absolutely is not their job. Their job is to go in and grill the staff to within an inch of their lives (or more - RIP Ruth Perry) and make a judgement. They do NOT have anything to do with trying to help schools meet standards or improve. So in most schools they will go in, fault find in everything they can to justify their existence, deliver a single word overall judgement (reports are more detailed of the different areas, but parents and press just see the overall judgement and don't tend to look any further), then swan off leaving physically and emotionally drained staff (and children) behind them.

They are very clear improving schools is not their remit, they just judge. It would be better if they were attached to the school for a period in order to actually work on areas they identify and make a meaningful difference.

I’m from another european country but honestly I think it is the same everywhere, 30y ago state schools were good, motivated teachers, well behaved children (the ones who weren’t were expelled), parents who were working with the school.
School was mainly there to teach children, academically brilliant ones were celebrated.

Fast forward to now, children misbehave, teachers/schools are not allowed to punish, parents don’t believe they should do anything about it.
Making sure children reach their highest academic potential is not the priority anymore, bright kids are dragged down and are told they will benefit from working with lower achieving ones. Sports day is a greater deal than academic achievements.

Nothing to do with the shite education system (not teachers - I was one and quit - teaches are doing the best they can in the circumstances) 🤔

What a stupid statement. Do you know anything at all about the narrow prescriptive curriculum, the absurd testing and assessments, the one size fits all curriculum/system, the underfunding, the lack of send support and places, the bullying leadership teams (often) and on and on.

In schools where the senior leadership are ballsy and protect and support staff, there can still be great learning and school experience. However, most SLT are greasy pole-climbing hirelings. And that wrecks everything. Find a school with a human headteacher who has common sense, courage and people skills, and you've struck gold. It's not always the most popular or prestigious schools who have these heads.

IME primary is great, nurturing, child-centric etc. and (state) secondary is shit. But probably depends on the area...