To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

This is interesting to hear.

What's the solution and how are they defining "sex" as part of it? Also what's the definition of "trans" in your policy?

I’m cancelling everything I’ve got with them; that’s appalling. To the women on here who don’t care, I say wait until your daughters, sisters, mothers are caught up in the carnage.

I've worked for JL/Waitrose for 10 years now. They have been a fantastic, fair & supportive employer. I've got a significant disability & the company has gone above & beyond to be supportive.

I don't work at that branch but where I work we have negotiated a solution that works for everyone regarding Trans debate. No one is forced to share with someone of opposite sex. I would have thought the company will be working to find a solution for the partners at Cheadle in the same way.

By all means if you don't want to shop at JL/Waitrose then don't but it would be crazy to do that based on 1 sensationalized story when overall the company is far better for workers rights & supports people through illness, disability, pregnancy, maternity etc far better than other retailers and certainly better than tesco, sainsburys, lidl & worse still Amazon, temu, shein that will dump any minimum wages employee if they are anything less than 100% productive.

Do you have a list?

I don’t find it at all difficult to believe that some men go to great lengths to harass and intimidate women - and to basically take everything from them that should belong only to women.

The solution is simple - third spaces. The arrangement should be made for transwomen. The onus should not be on biological women who do not wish to share changing rooms with male-bodied persons to either put up with it or be told to use a tiny space further away and lacking proper facilities.

Sense at last!

Where men who have a gender dysphoria (or otherwise) have to go isn't a problem for women to solve. Personally I think they should go into spaces that align with their sex. If that's a problem then take it up with the men, make them more understanding and accommodating. Argue for a third space. You don't encroach on spaces not for you.

Where they shouldn't go is the women's.

That's a generalisation. Having been a victim of sexual violence it did happen to me however, I see the struggles of trans people and don't automatically believe them to be sexual predators. Sexual violence existed when trans people were not accommodated for. JL need to offer suitable alternatives for women who show discomfort. I'm not about further alienating trans women.

You don’t want to a space with “penised males”, well what about if they’ve had surgery? Is that ok? Somehow I doubt it.

And you don’t want to be in the presence of any men in spaces for women because “their presence may be problematic to some women”. So this is solely an altruistic endeavour to help “some” (undefined) women.

It’s difficult to grasp because I cannot get my head around the uproar it causes when there is genuine harm being done to women. This is a bogey monster under the bed that receives outsized attention on here. I don’t understand it, you all seem to work each other up into a state of apoplexy.

It’s completely pointless posting in these threads full of pitchforks. However I do wonder if any of you have ever actually met or interacted with a person suffering from gender dysphoria. There’s so much ignorance and hatred on display.

No - normal dogs. I saw one in Liverpool this week. Just sniffing around the goods with its owners completely oblivious to what it was doing. I asked at the till and was told that dogs are allowed in. So I’d advise anyone still wishing to shop there to check your purchases very carefully before you go home with clothing that a dog has slobbered on.

I’m about to email in to complain about the issue in the op - but will no doubt get fobbed off, just as I did by M&S.

Imagine if the suffragettes had said this about the vote! It's to not be bothered when other women fight for all those rights for you and you just reap the benefits, isn't it?

But a man (even saying that they identify as a woman) will get removed if caught if they are waving their penis around in a communal part of the toilet. The question is whether they would get caught. that is not. That’s not normal behaviour in a women’s toilet.

This debate is something that I struggle with.

I see both sides. Some women feel uncomfortable and it's against their beliefs.

However it's a dilemma. Where are trans women meant to go? There are no winners here.

I also find it difficult to believe that men would dress as women for work, in order to hear a woman pee in a stall next to them.

I also personally, struggle to be upset by a trans person sharing those spaces. I am in a locked stall to pee. I am not worried about a trans persons gaze. Just because they are trans, does not make them a sexual predator, in the same was as being a lesbian does not make a woman a sexual predator.

JL have offered alternatives for women who feel uncomfortable.

I agree the situation is not ideal but I won't be boycotting JL. Their Union need to step in if partners are unhappy.

Also......dogs. Don't mind this at all! I'm an advocate of socialised pets. Again, get it that some don't like it.

I'm pleased for you that you won't be affected but you don't get to consent on my behalf or anyone else's and until ALL women consent to a man in their safe space, he shouldn't be there.

And they are men. I can put on mens clothes, grow a beard and call myself Steve, it doesn't make me a man. Sex is biological and cannot be changed. Not by hormones, not by surgery. That is just taking financial advantage of people with a mental illness by making them think if they can just change their body then their life will be better and they will be happy. Its abhorrent. A failure in their duty of care to vulnerable people. And it doesn't work. The sheer number of detransitioners speaks to that.

Ah yes, the predictable ad hominem attacks on other women who have different opinions than you do. Luckily in this country and in this century we’re able to hold and express different views. Why does it need to get so personal?

Why is the bar set at being attacked?

I don’t want to be in certain spaces in the presence of a penised male. The end. I don’t need a reason why. No matter what their intentions are. My brother and lovely male friends would never hurt anyone (as far as I know). Would I want them to be in any spaces for women if they woke up tomorrow with different gender feels despite being sure their intentions were not nefarious in any way? No. Because their presence may be problematic to some women, for a myriad of reasons.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Me too OP.

Do you use the changing rooms or toilets in John Lewis? Are you happy to undress in front of strange men? Some women aren't.

Agree.

I think internalised misogyny is a problem. It's helping men demolish all boundaries

You are aware that 99.9% of men do not need to go through the pretence of lying about their gender identity in order to attack women? They just do it. Honestly you would think that hoards of women were being attacked on a daily basis by men falsely identifying as women. A far, far bigger issue is violence perpetuated by men identifying as men. Why is there not the same uproar there?

Christ. If MN boycott John Lewis it’ll be on the ropes within the week.

Good for you. You don’t get to decide other women have to share their spaces with men though. That’s not a right you get to give away. It’s also the very definition of a trans woman. A man who thinks he’s a woman. He has to pretend as he won’t and never will be one.

Hopefully these spaces you’re happy to share won’t include someone like Katie Dolatowski. You may find yourself revising your position.

JL are a busted flush. The default response to any instore enquiry serms to be 'look online'
I'm going to write to JL about this FWIW. Perhaps (not hopeful) a bit of a pile-on may show them that this issue is, at least, a talking point.
Otherwise I'm so fed up of the drivel coming from the transmaidens here.
What is it that drives this treachery towards their own sex?
Is it that piss-warm feeling of being on the side right of the inclusive line?
Or are they just drunk on the trans woo woo?