To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

Im all for 3rd spaces that everyone can use,

you can use the facilities that match your sex or the 3rd space that males and females can use

Let’s take this back a step. Why is there such a push for transwomen to use women’s spaces?

The official line is that they feel “unsafe” in the men’s. But there are so many issues with this claim, and the supposed solutions to it:

a) where is the epidemic of male-on-gender-nonconforming-male violence/abuse in men’s toilets and changing rooms? You think TRAs wouldn’t be making political capital out of this if it were actually happening? But there’s tumbleweed. Because it isn’t happening.

b) even if there were examples of it being reported, why is the answer for women to budge up and lose their single-sex spaces? Why is it not for men to be challenged to become more accepting of their feminine-presenting brethren? Why aren’t there more good men standing up to make their spaces safer for all men?

c) why is the “invitation” to use women’s spaces only extended to those who claim a feminine gender identity? Why not other cohorts of vulnerable men? Disabled men, effeminate gay men, men of smaller stature, teenage boys just starting to use men’s spaces alone for the first time?

d) why is a basic tenet of safeguarding being overridden? Men, as a sex class, pose a threat to women as a sex class. That’s one of the main reasons why we have single-sex spaces in the first place (the others being dignity and privacy - don’t they matter any more?) We have SSS when we are potentially bodily vulnerable, because this is about bodies, the sexes, not gender. We know that most men are decent but we keep them all out anyway - or we did, until recently - because we have no way of knowing a man’s intent until after harm has been inflicted upon a woman or child. Men have trained as doctors, dentists, teachers, priests to get close to their victims - do you really think bad actors would hesitate to claim a trans identity if it gave them access to commit a crime or to indulge their fetish? The links shared above show that it’s already happening, and I don’t know about you but for me, the number of women and girls it’s acceptable for this to happen to before we all collectively say “no, out you all go back to the gents” is not n+1 like it seems to be for others here.

If you ever find yourself falling for the excellently-spun piece of propaganda that this is the most marginalised, powerless, discriminated-against minority, just pause to think what they’ve achieved here: removing women’s single sex spaces, bending language (“preferred pronouns”), being centred in corporate campaigns and messaging. As a disability activist, I can only watch in awe as TRAs achieve 500% of our gains with 10% of the effort.

Absolutely dumbledores

why are these shops hiding the fact that the changing rooms and toilets are multi sex?

should be on massive signs outside that these areas are for males and females

No I don't think it is. Those have expressed a 'dont care' attitude have not responded to the follow up questions about what vulnerable women and children who do not wish to share their spaces are meant to do? Not a single one has returned to declare 'oh actually, you're right, I don't care about those women'. So I can only conclude that this is either an inability (or willful desire not to) to consider the logical conclusion of this kind of policy or an absolute lack of empathy.

Your world view appears to be based on science denial. You returned to this thread this morning but still won't engage with the question of how exactly transwomen are not men.

The population of the United Kingdom in 2024 is estimated to be between 67.85 million and 69,138,192 people, depending on the source, that's quite a lot of people too.

This is utterly depressing.
Women need women only spaces. So many women have experienced abuse and assault by men.
I will boycott JL forever and all women should.

Oh dear,what a shame.

Yep,the perfect solution.

You'd think if JL really believed in the ideology they're following they'd be honest about it and clear. But they're lying to customers, I bet most customers have no clue that the women's toilets are mixed sex, because it doesn't say.

And what about non-binary people? With no third space, they have nowhere to go, do they? Pretty transphobic. A third space would suit everyone, including non-binary people and the many on this thread who want mixed sex. The only people it wouldn't suit are AGPs, basically. Those people for whom the lack of consent of women and children is really what they're looking for. Why else be so unclear and hide the truth?

So their policy is pretty much only benefiting AGPs. Not normal transpeople (many on this thread explaining how so many transwomen and men and non-binary people these days are 'not in my name' about such discriminatory, Islamophobic TRA ideology).

It's also not lying and deceiving customers if they have a gender neutral / mixed sex space, clearly labelled. If you label a space 'woman's' but in reality someone like 6ft 5 male bodied Dolatowski is allowed in, that means parents will send children in there alone, something they wouldn't do if they knew someone like Dolatowski was allowed in. There is no way I'd send my daughter into a mixed sex toilet alone but when I could trust retailers, I might have into a woman's only toilet. Sadly, I've totally lost trust as I know 'women's' these days is usually a lie- and they've also lost my business. It's not informed consent. It's deception.

There are plenty of independent retailers run by women who know the basics of biology and safeguarding, I'd recommend all women who control their family's finances, as I do, start investing there instead.

As I said earlier up thread this is an ill thought out policy. John lewis need to spend money supporting their alignment. If they don't they will lose support from their core customers. If they think it is OK to change a few door signs and bingo, they are LGBTQ+ friendly they are nuts.
I want people to be treated fairly but forcing the opinions of the few on biological women is a huge mistake. People do take their business elsewhere.

There are some women on the thread who have indicated that it does not bother them. I think it’s a bit rude to assume that that is necessarily apathy or lack of empathy. The point is that in your hissy fit (again borrowing the term from @Loggialy ), you don’t represent them.

There are also those of us who have expressed we actively support JL’s position. Again, that’s not lack of empathy nor is it apathy. It’s just not agreeing with your world view.

Oh and the other benefit of third spaces is that they stop being discriminatory against all those religions, which their current policy is.

All the people who are fine in mixed sex spaces should have the chance to experience that - in THIRD spaces. Two single sex, one mixed sex.

Issue fixed, no-one is being used for validation (or worse) without their consent. Women are not being traumatised, there will be a space away from voyeurism and flashing and higher rates of sexual crime (which we know are higher in mixed sex spaces), but people who are fine with it all can go in there.

Everyone's a winner. So bizarre that they're choosing to piss off their core demographic instead of just having a third space. I don't think it'll end well for them, and not just because of the army of women who don't consent. Also because once ideology overrides good business sense then a business is doomed.

Did you miss the bit where women are vilified for challenging transwomen for being men?

What are ‘GC women’?

There's no way I'm boycotting John Lewis! However, I am a firm believer in direct action so I would always recommend that if you see a man in a woman's space, to raise your voice and state that fact. Leave the toilet immediately and report it to a member of staff that there is a man in the ladies' toilet, that you feel scared to use that space, and that they need to provide you with a safe space immediately otherwise you will need to urinate where you stand. Write to the manage of the store and to the CEO telling them there was a man in the ladies' toilet. Do all these things and more. A few women boycotting JL won't dent their sales at all. More and more women creating havoc through direct action will be a right pain the ass for them to deal with on a daily basis.

I'm absolutely appalled at the number of women on this thread who don't care at all because they don't feel it affects them. The apathy is shocking, not to mention the lack of empathy. It's truly depressing. There will be no hissy fit - the trans lobby will be louder in their victimhood.

I think the difference is GC women having a hissy fit (your words not mine) is not a majority of their customers. GC women having a hissy fit who actually put their money where their mouth is and boycott the convenience of ordering in to Waitrose, even less so…

I was in loos the other day and they had turned the ladies into mixed sex toilets (mens were still mens obvs)

i had two men in the queue behind me, then my dad turned up and another man behind him

i leaned round pointed and said ‘thats the gents daddy’

all 4 men peeled off and went to the gents…they didn’t seem keen to use the mixed sex toilets 🤔…I’m sure a lot of the women didn’t either but obviously we had no choice

JL too afraid of a Translobby hissy-fit that might damage sales.
Sadly Female women hissy-fits change nothing and don’t scare JL despite female Women being majority of customers.

There's no money to do this

Thanks. I’ve looked it up now. Women shouldn’t be the people to have to put up with this. It needs turning around and let’s see how men feel when their men’s only spaces are removed.

It is a weird way to do it

man who identifies as a woman doesn’t want to be in the male changing room/toilet

JL: Move them into the female changing room/toilet

female/s don’t want males in the female changing room/toilet

JL: Move those females into a 3rd space

much more logical to have a 3rd space for men who identify as women and anyone else who fancies being in there

Autogynephile. Something women should be aware of where this issue is concerned.