To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

Who cares?

What does that have to do with the issue of men wanting access to womens spaces?

Some bad men are trans women. Get over it. Isla Bryson, Karen White, Katie Dolatwoski to name a few.

I’d argue that any biological man, regardless of how they identify, who knowingly goes into spaces designated only for women (toilets, changing rooms etc etc) are pushing boundaries. They know their presence may bring discomfort yet do it anyway as their need for validation is more important. I don’t think they are ‘good’ men.

The man should be banned.

And how are we supposed to teach our own girls and granddaughters the same common sense, principles and self protection?

Late to thread but I can see we’ve still got a number of posters who will argue until they’re blue in the face that men should have a right to be in women’s spaces. So odd.

Sorry, are you including trans women in your definition of ‘bad men’?! Are you just trying to be needlessly offensive?!

And that’s before you’ve started on your views on transmen….

How many transmen have you met in real life? My understanding is that they are a lot rarer than transwomen. I have never met one but have met transwomen. Can you really tell a transman from an effeminate man?

Loving your post @SoundTheSirens

Not all trans-identifying people have gender dysphoria. Surely there’d be as many middle aged women identifying as transmen???

Everyone knows what sex they are and the societal expectation needs to be that everyone does the decent thing and sticks to correct sex spaces. Good men stay out so bad men stand out.

I don't find 'transmen' pass very well in real life either, despite the facial hair. Their stature, vocals and gait are very distinct from men.

My point is, if you say transmen can use ladies toilets, what’s to stop actual men from pretending to be transmen to access them?

Theres no point in trying to play gotcha with pics. Our real life experience of people is totally different.

Which one of these should be banned from women’s toilets? They are both transgender.

It’s completely pointless posting in these threads full of pitchforks. However I do wonder if any of you have ever actually met or interacted with a person suffering from gender dysphoria. There’s so much ignorance and hatred on display.

If people have gender dysphoria they should get therapy and proper mental health support.

Women aren't men's emotional support humans. They have their own needs. There are women who have been violently raped, suffer domestic abuse - why would you deny these women these spaces away from men? Why don't these women matter to you?

Of course it's not okay if they've had surgery!

They're still men. Do you not understand that. I don't want to share personal and private space with men. End of. No matter what they wear or what cosmetic surgery they've had.

So they've got gender dysphoria and that's sad for them. But why should I and millions of women like me have to put our discomfort and safety aside? Why aren't our wants and needs as important as theirs? They want to be in our space, we don't want them in our space. Ask yourself why you are siding with them.

I mean I know the answer it's because they're men and you think women are subservient. Either because you are a man or a woman with a nasty case of internalised misogyny. It is not our job to budge up.

It's also not our job to pity or accommodate them.

And if you think that Rachel Dolezal isn't truly black, because she feels truly black you're a hypocrite too. Surely she should have been allowed to keep her job and identify as she pleased at the expense of the black community? Because you are advocating for these men to steal from women so what's the difference?

As it happens my sister had a friend who was a transwoman. He was deeply problematic.always dressed in an overtly sexual fashion. Always speaking overly openly about his sexual hook ups which involved inviting men around to his house for sex whom he met online. He used to boast that he could give them an excellent wank as he had once had his own penis, far better than a biological women apparently. And always always wearing stilettos, a short skirt and stockings which he would flash at women he had only just met and indeed his supermarket work colleagues.

Oh and a lot of his hook ups were married men (to women)

So let's not pretend that all transwomen are wilting flowers. Many of them like this man are AGPs with the intention of forcing women to partake in their fetish.

Ddraig

No idea of the legality but I've seen it a few times, mainly in small theatres

That sounds like it would have a discrimination case. If the men have dedicated toilets but the women must share then surely that's not legal?

I read it. It all boils down to “exclude trans women from women’s loos,” without straightforwardly coming out and saying it.

Exclude men from women only spaces.

Lets strive for accuracy in language, it's very important.

Fuck you John Lewis. I'll give your company the same level of respect you have chosen to give your female employees and customers.

Be honest.

You can just call it excluding men.

Because that is what we want and that is what biological women deserve.

Safety from the men who rape, maim and murder us.

Yes even the ones that wear dresses and lippy while they hurt actual women.

If the poster had read the letter they'd see that this is discussed at length. We should not assume these women don't need our help.

No, plenty of people have family or inherited wealth.

How do you know they're strong? They could be very very vulnerable.

What an odd assumption

Wouldn't anyone be homeless if they didn't ever work?

Exactly. Being told to go against everything we'd been taught since we were little girls.

Well he's a man isn't he.