To ask a stupid question? Noah's Ark

I was raised a Catholic and went to a Catholic school. My R.E teacher (who was a nun) in my secondary school actually said some bible stories were faith stories. Not sure if the story of Noah's Arc was classed as a faith story according to my teacher, as i think sometimes they are built on things that actually happened and as the story was passed on they had been sensationalised.

The word "species" doesn't appear in the text at all, but "kinds" does which isn't the same thing.

So, it doesn't mean every living thing was on the Ark which I think the text is clear on.

I don't suppose Bronze Age people had a clear understanding of what a 'species' is. But what difference would it make? Even if all living things weren't put on the ark, only the 'kinds' which were got off it alive (barring whatever fish could survive in the temporarily brackish water). Is the desperate theory of literalists that these basic kinds speciated within a few thousand years?

Grain of truth maybe that has expanded over the millenia, its not inconceivable to think that there were floods and animals were led off to a safer place and that they probably couldn't take all of them ,over the years this ja expanded to an ark and animals being led off two by two etc.

I mean the story does not stand up to scrutiny because there are literally millions of species on the earth so the very idea you could get all of them is pretty unrealistic, especially since a lot live over the other side of the world and there is no way of getting there.

It's probably an embeliished story of a guy who built a boat because he thought there would be a flood and everyone laughed at him. Then there was a flood and he took a couple of chickens and a cow on board. Then the flood went away and he was the richest guy in town because he was the only one with a cow left and everyone thought he was great.

Really.. what's so unrealistic about it, in your mind?

Tbh the only 'realistic' element at all is that the god described in the Old Testament would decide that drowning nearly every thing was an appropriate response to some of the people 'rebelling against his law' - including all of the people who had never heard said 'law'.

Fortunately, it didn't happen and there's no evidence this terrible entity exists.

He knew that those babies and children would grow up to also rebel against His law.

Free will?

Also, if he invented humans, in his image, and he's omniscient and all-powerful, how did the vast majority of them, including babies FFS, end up evil. So evil that they deserved to be drowned (remember, as babies). You'd think the mass murder of 99.9999% of the babies on earth would be, you know, completely evil. But Satan never did that, right? It was God, in his infinite wisdom.

If all the baby-murdering, slave-owning, raping stuff isn't enough to turn people off, I don't know what would. Faith is a funny thing.

Noah preached for 120 years

Nope, that's another of the things that didn't happen.

With respect, I think you do not understand what happened. Yes, God destroyed the wicked. And yes, the Omniscient, Creator God destroyed babies. I am guessing, being Omniscient, He knew that those babies and children would grow up to also rebel against His law. Again, Noah preached for 120 years warning people. 120 years...

Yes, I believed and now I know, because when you are born again, it's a supernatural work. If I said I 'believed' but didn't 'know' I would actually be lying. I cannot deny what I know is true.

Even if we entertain the absurdity of, say, giant pandas travelling to Israel to board the ark, we'd also have to believe that they brought with them sufficient bamboo to have kept themselves fed during that journey, plus for the best part of a year at sea, and then some spare for the journey back to China. We'd also have to believe there was storage room for all that bamboo and that it wouldn't rot on the voyage. Multiply that by however many different "kinds" of animals, birds, insects, invertebrates etc that would need to be carried.

Pandas can eat meat and do. Maybe they ate the smaller mammals who bred quickly.

I've decided to make some cash spouting quasi-scientific religious stuff. I'm good at sounding like I know what I'm talking about and linking enough actual fact to sound erudite and believable. I'll make bank!

Noah didn't take 2 of each kind of animal. He took 7 pairs of each 'clean' animal and 1 pair of each 'unclean' animal. I'm surprised an avid Bible reader like @Calmomiletea doesn't know this 'fact'.

You can google/read a referencee books to discover whether or not floods occured around that time.
However, the bible, as other 'religious' texts, is a novel

Well, yes, it would be. The Qur'an is loosely based on the Torah.

Noah was supposed to have been 600 years old.

Wood is simply not a strong enough material to build a sea-going ship of that size. The only full-sized replica ark that can float does so on steel barges.

Even if we entertain the absurdity of, say, giant pandas travelling to Israel to board the ark, we'd also have to believe that they brought with them sufficient bamboo to have kept themselves fed during that journey, plus for the best part of a year at sea, and then some spare for the journey back to China. We'd also have to believe there was storage room for all that bamboo and that it wouldn't rot on the voyage. Multiply that by however many different "kinds" of animals, birds, insects, invertebrates etc that would need to be carried.

Sufficient rain to cover the tops of the highest mountains to 15 cubits deep would desalinate the oceans and so kill the vast majority of sea life.

There'd be geological evidence of a global flood. There isn't.

Hence why I said I don’t know about David. Are there historical sources outside of the bible and other religious literature that confirm his existence?

are there Christian scholars who think Moses was real? Or do you mean believers? From my recollection and I can’t be certain but the presenters didn’t seem to be convinced of his historicity either likewise for Abraham. But like I said im not a theologian, I do find it fascinating though.

The story doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny does it.

1. It took my uncle 3 years to refurb a narrow boat. There is no way one man could build an arc big enough to hold two of every animal in a sensible time period.

2. It took the national history museum decades to get one stuffed version of quite a lot of stuffed animals from lots of different collectors. How could one man gather up two of each.

3. We are still finding new insects etc - how did Noah know about those? Why did he then hide them again?

4. What did the animals eat? Did he take extra sheep to feed to the lions so that he ended up with just two sheep at the end?

5. What is one of the animals got sick - was that species doomed - is that what happened to unicorns?

6. After all that work how did he and more importantly Mrs Noah have the energy to repopulate the earth?

Well there is another thread that thinks everyone is listening in so nothing really surprises me anymore

Let’s call it bilge, more nautical

It must be true then.

Noah and the flood is also in the Quran

I cannot get my head round how anyone with a modicum of intelligence can possibly believe any of this utter shite!

Most of these stories are probably based on an element of truth.

When you start getting into long timescales the amount of disasters that can occur is impressive. Meteorite impacts. Tsunamies. Huge volcanic eruptions and volcanic winters. Hurricanes and tornados. Earthquakes. Plagues.

Even significant changes in climate can happen naturally over the timescale of a few hundred years. When you start looking at the 1000s of year timescales that these stories may have had to evolve its not surprising that plenty of stuff happened and plenty of opportunities for it to be sold to the public as the "wrath of god".

Even today people are always looking for explanations as to why things happen. Why they happen to them. It's not so hard to believe that a fortuitous natural event might be seized upon by leaders to give the faithful a kick up the arse and re establish the power of god.

It would actually be more surprising if religious texts didn't contain these types of stories. Because part of the purpose of religion is to be able to explain the inexplicable, and if you can mix a good dose of fear in as well into the bargain you are onto a winner.

Well global? They would have to know there was a 'global' to start with or even just a world (round or square or flat or star shaped or whatever they thought back then)

So the people around the ark would have had to know about all the countries everywhere that there is now for it to be global?

They did explore but everywhere?

Wood? Good thing it was only 40 days plus the amount of time to subside (