To ask a stupid question? Noah's Ark

Whoo, I was watching The Why Files on YT about floods yesterday. Apparently, pretty much every civilisation has a flood legend.

If you want to fall into a rabbit hole, have a look at this...

I spent most of yesterday down there! The guy from TWF is good tbh, he presents evidence and then debunks.

You'd have needed a breeding population. Imagine the genetic inbreeding issues! Minimum Viable Population is larger than you would think. MVP varies by species but large mammals typically have a pretty big one. Fewer than 50 individuals is a pretty rough estimate. Not two, not seven.

There may have been floods, and animals, and a bloke with a boat. But none of this would have been anything other than a story.

You can't rebuild a viable population on a single pair, or even seven pairs. The gene pool would be far too small.

There aren't many Christian denominations preaching Genesis as fact!

Most countries will have had floods, if you could have asked the ancient people of the Britain and Germany etc... they would likely have had handed down stories of when the sea rose up like a monster and swallowed the whole country in between (Doggerland) and everyone on it.

This, and however big was the ark?!

I used to believe in evolution but am now a Christian who believes in a young earth creation. I believe that the account of Noah's flood is history and happened as described in the Bible.

Imagine the bilge water on that vessel though.

Must have absolutely meefed.

It's a pretty hideous story really. Just drown anyone who does something wrong. I wouldn't wish drowning even on the worst criminal let alone the entire world except one family. The fact that one family is saved doesn't make it ok!

It always amazes me how these stories are considered suitable for children.

It wouldn't be every animal in the world though, just every local domesticated animal. Sheep, goats, cattle, different birds, camels perhaps.

As others have said. There were floods but not globally. I'm mainly commenting so I can find this later to read the links and podcasts

Can't remember where I read it but once read possible explanation for lots of bible stories it was fascinating! The other one I remember clearly was there is evidence of a tsunami for Moses parting of the sea

Mount Ararat, which used to be in Armenia.

There wasn't a flood over the whole world that has been scientifically shown, but there was a flood over all that area of the world, so it would have seemed like the whole world.

These are two possible suggestions, both of which are interesting:
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education (ncse.ngo)

Evidence for a Flood | Smithsonian (smithsonianmag.com)

And just to note, it wasn't two of every animal. Some of them were 7 pairs - mostly the ones that would have been used as food if my memory is correct!

I suspect the whole story is based on folk memory passed down over hundreds of generations. Somewhere between 6000 and 15000 years ago sea levels rose around 130 metres after the end of the last ice age which would have caused many floods and dramatically reduced landmass. Over time these would have developed into the many flooding myths we see around the world. The story of Noah is most likely based around these preexisting myths updated by the abrahamic tradition to emphasize the power of their god.

I'm both a Christian and an ancient history nerd. I recently heard this podcast on History Hit's Ancients about Noah's ark and the flood;
https://castbox.fm/vb/707977250

There's tons of evidence of localised floods historically. I'm more dubious about 2 of every animal given that they tend to eat each other! So I take the symbolism position broadly on the old testament.

Your local CoE church will probably do a three evening course called Hope Explored which is a great place to ask questions and learn more.

There are flood myths from all other the world, many of which are very old (the Bible as we know it incorporated many preexisting stories). At the end of the last ice age, all the water that was previously held in glaciers melted. This caused sea level to rise dramatically.

The humans that were there at the time will have witnessed massive areas of land dissappear under the ocean, within a human life time. (Eg. There used to be land between England and the Netherlands). The story of something so dramatic/ terrorfying, would likely be passed down in oral history, with the story evolving.

Boats were already in use at the time, so it's not unlikely that someone put animals onto a boat when escaping the flood. Obviously not two of every animal, but maybe two of ever type of domestic animal they kept, so they could re-establish their farm.

I'm sure I remember reading something (may be wrong) that said there is a hill in Turkey? Where they say Noah's ark landed after the floods.

It probably didn't happen. There's an awful lot in the Bible that probably didn't happen.

I was always taught (Catholic school) that it was metaphorical rather than literal, just like Adam and Eve. Floods would have been familiar, and presumably just like today a traumatic event where some would show great kindness.

Or what @SerenityNowInsanityLater said much more eloquently!

I'm a Catholic. Do I believe there was a righteous man called Noah? Yes. Do I believe he built an ark and put a whole bunch of people and pets on it? Yes. Do I believe God's wrath and mercy were involved in a big ass flood, yes but was it global? Meh probably not.

They didn't have 'global' in the way we know today. So the floods that happened could have affected the whole country/ planet or not. Nobody would really know. But it would have seemed pretty apocalypse- tastic to those involved.

I'm sure I've seen a documentary about the black sea being created by a massive flood when the sea levels in the med rose, and that that's thought to be responsible for various tales of ancient massive flooding.

I don’t think practicing Christians are obliged to believe in the literal truth of Old Testament stories like Noah’s flood. Even medieval Christians tended to take these as allegories of sin and redemption ( cf Jonah and the whale).