Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

UK teens the most unhappy in Europe

290 replies

coffeeandteav · 29/08/2024 16:33

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

OP posts:
KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:56

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 06:19

report

Children's society? Did a survey? Did they? How many children and parents did they survey? 15 year olds? How many from the uk filled out this survey? And how many from Europe.

I call bullshit on their data. Yes, we all know there are problems in the UK e.g. NHS is very underfunded and mental health support for teens and youth is practically non-existent.

But how many mn users participated in their survey, did you? and are all our 15-year-olds more miserable than their European counterparts? I'm not so sure.

all the 15-year-olds I know are off, out and about playing football, girls doing sport, off on holiday with their parents. next year collecting GCSE results. none of what is reported in the survey is what I see in the life of any of the teens I know round here.

Yes, life is a bit shit. Or can be. Wink But my dc aren't unhappy. Are yours?

It seems a little contradictory to criticize the study for its lack of good data, but then suggest that anecdotes from your immediate circle would be more valid.

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:55

TooMuchRedMaybe · 30/08/2024 06:39

Do British people actually think Scandinavia/Nordics and Germany is as gloomy as Britain? It really isn’t. I already posted this earlier in the thread but as a summary:

We have more daylight hours in Stockholm than you do in London per year.

There was 1290mm of rain in London in 2023 whereas only 555mm of rain in Stockholm and 2/3 of that is in the form of snow in the winter, so rainy and gloomy. The dark winters here feels OK because the snow brightens it up and since the summers are really light, dry and comfortably warm (not hot) we at least get that to look forward to.

Show quote history

Well, lovely as Stockholm can be, when I've visited family, it's very often cold and dark. So just blaming the climate in the UK for unhappy youth seems an invalid correlation.

justbeingasmartarse · 30/08/2024 06:53

coffeeandteav · 29/08/2024 16:33

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

  1. Summers haven’t been to bad recently - getting up to 30 degrees (40 a few years ago)
  2. That probably impacts more on parents
  3. Yes - I don’t think there are any youth clubs where I live.
  4. Maybe that makes up for the lack of clubs?
  5. Yes - I think a lot of them feel demoralised
  6. I don’t know - does that actually happen?
  7. Amen. Home ownership is little more than a dream for many
  8. erasmus is really only relevant if your a language student
  9. ????
  10. Not sure why that would be specific to the uk?
  11. I don’t know. Does it?
  12. Er.. what? 🤢
  13. You’re meant to do homework 🤷‍♀️
  14. Yes - to much ultra processed food
  15. mmm I don’t know that pensioners are rich exactly although not all are destitute
  16. That will impact on all ages
KillerTomato7 · 30/08/2024 06:52

Begby6789 · 29/08/2024 20:36

I think it is the rise of social media. There is a step change in teen behaviour where many hang out in bigger groups (online and in school) nasty sm conversations are rife and involve kids from all over the area, not just students in class or even school. Teenagers can send photos or videos in a instant which can be used to humiliate an individual to a large audience. Children can be in fear of being the next victim. Some students can be absolutely vile on social media. Not helped by parents allowing kids younger than 13 on these sm sites. Years ago, home was a break from any problems at school, now there is no escape if you have upset the wrong person. I think sm has made the world a more threatening place to many teens.

It’s not clear why social media would be causing more problems for children in the uk than elsewhere in Europe.

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2024 06:40

The UK also has the highest number of girls age 15 who have had sex in Europe. So do culturally have pressures that other kids don't, and I find it hard not to link that with the internet.

TooMuchRedMaybe · 30/08/2024 06:39

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:24

Have you been to Scandinavia? Northern Germany?

Show quote history

Do British people actually think Scandinavia/Nordics and Germany is as gloomy as Britain? It really isn’t. I already posted this earlier in the thread but as a summary:

We have more daylight hours in Stockholm than you do in London per year.

There was 1290mm of rain in London in 2023 whereas only 555mm of rain in Stockholm and 2/3 of that is in the form of snow in the winter, so rainy and gloomy. The dark winters here feels OK because the snow brightens it up and since the summers are really light, dry and comfortably warm (not hot) we at least get that to look forward to.

KateDelRick · 30/08/2024 06:24

Jifmicroliquid · 29/08/2024 18:22

I really do think the weather here plays a massive part. I am so affected by the weather and I get very down and depressed on the grey, dreary days.
I imagine that a lot of kids/teens feel the same but maybe don’t see the link or recognise that it might be this affecting their general mood.

Have you been to Scandinavia? Northern Germany?

Blueybanditbingochilli · 30/08/2024 06:20

Nuggetnuggety · 29/08/2024 22:45

Of the millions out of work

most of the 2.7 million "inactive" under-25s were students

Among 25- to 49-year-olds, 1.1 million people did not work because of caring responsibilities. Nearly one million people in this age group were not working because of illness.

The main reasons that 3.5 million over-50s were out of the job market were illness and early retiremen
The rise in over-50s inactivity appears to be highest for lower-middle income workers, and workers from lower income industries and occupations.

Im not sure how you force sick people to work.

The reasons are basically immaterial - the fact is we don’t have enough taxpayers for the level of service we expect. It can’t happen because we aren’t raising the tax revenue and the welfare bill is a shocker. It’s not a value judgement, just a fact.

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 06:19

report

Children's society? Did a survey? Did they? How many children and parents did they survey? 15 year olds? How many from the uk filled out this survey? And how many from Europe.

I call bullshit on their data. Yes, we all know there are problems in the UK e.g. NHS is very underfunded and mental health support for teens and youth is practically non-existent.

But how many mn users participated in their survey, did you? and are all our 15-year-olds more miserable than their European counterparts? I'm not so sure.

all the 15-year-olds I know are off, out and about playing football, girls doing sport, off on holiday with their parents. next year collecting GCSE results. none of what is reported in the survey is what I see in the life of any of the teens I know round here.

Yes, life is a bit shit. Or can be. Wink But my dc aren't unhappy. Are yours?

LittleLantern123 · 30/08/2024 06:12

Kianai · 30/08/2024 04:53

It is also VERY dependant on where you live. In some areas if the UK, you would have to be verging on criminally neglectful to let your 10 year old out to the local park on their own. Gang activity, drugs, stabbings, groups of men who find it culturally acceptable to harass girl children.

If you live somewhere that this isn't a daily issue then it is easy to judge an 'overly' worried parent.

Edited
Show quote history

Our 'local park' is a half hour walk away and was the scene of a very famous murder! Shockingly I didn't allow my kids to go alone at primary school age.
I do think we have too much navel gazing amongst all generations but especially teenagers. Every other video that pops up on Tik Tok is basically telling them that they cannot be happy, they must have some mental health issues.....feel nervous? You have anxiety! Feel sad that your goldfish died? You have depression! Feel overwhelmed leaving school and starting an apprenticeship? You have burn out! and on it goes, perfectly normal feelings that everyone will have been through in life suddenly need to be 'treated' and discussed at length.
Perhaps a little bit of the 'British stiff upper lip' making some sort of comeback wouldn't be such a bad thing, it would free up services for those in genuine need as mental health services wouldn't be swamped with hoards of slightly unhappy people looking for a magic cure.

OfficerChurlish · 30/08/2024 05:35

Maybe the fact that four years ago they had the right to live work and study, for however long or short a period they wanted, in 31 countries, and for some reason that absolutely no one can explain, that has now been reduced to 2?

Sweetteaplease · 30/08/2024 05:02

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 04:43

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Culture, or lack of

Nuggetnuggety · 30/08/2024 05:00

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Is it to do with growing increases in relative poverty for children & working adults maybe? not sure if there are similar patterns in Europe.

We also have much higher income inequality. “Income inequality in the UK has grown more than in most OECD countries. Today the level of UK income inequality is high by international standards”

Kianai · 30/08/2024 04:53

Nuggetnuggety · 29/08/2024 22:56

My 10 year old daughter has friends who aren’t allowed to the nearest park without a parent! These parents think they are keeping their kids safe.

But there’s so much judgement. If that 10 yr old has an accident or worse people would be falling over themselves to say “I would never have let my dc do this”. Look at the Kirsty Interrailing drama.

It is also VERY dependant on where you live. In some areas if the UK, you would have to be verging on criminally neglectful to let your 10 year old out to the local park on their own. Gang activity, drugs, stabbings, groups of men who find it culturally acceptable to harass girl children.

If you live somewhere that this isn't a daily issue then it is easy to judge an 'overly' worried parent.

Oblomov24 · 30/08/2024 04:43

I'm not sure what the reason is, but I'm struggling to grasp why the UK is any worse than any other European country?

Sweetteaplease · 30/08/2024 04:42

Lack of community amd feeling part of something

GreenTeaLikesMe · 30/08/2024 04:17

Agree with the "There is a lack of things that the UK does well" post (English schools do produce quite good results, mind you).

The US and Oz tend to have big houses and gardens and cars - these "private spaces" are much more spacious and enjoyable than the UK's are.

Many European countries have nicer public spaces and "third spaces" (town centers, high streets, plazas etc) and have better connected cities where children can move around independently and play outdoors more easily. Their "public spaces/third spaces" are nicer.

The UK has tried to adopt the US/Oz model of car-centered, private-space-centered lifestyles, but does not really have the space to do a good job of it. So it ends up with cities where public spaces (town centers, high streets, parks, third spaces) are crap and roads are full of traffic, but also has tiny houses and gardens so private spaces aren't enjoyable either.

GreenTeaLikesMe · 30/08/2024 04:09

There is a lack of independent play and travel among British kids which I think is a real problem.

Nuggetnuggety · 30/08/2024 04:00

Social mobility has completely changed for the better over the last 50 years. Just look at the opportunities for going to uni! Completely transformed, 38.% go now. 8% when I was that age. In the early 50s we had 22 universities. Well over 100 additional ones now. Far more opportunity. Of course there’s been a cost / a graduate tax to pay fees rather than the working class paying.

@TizerorFizz More dc go to uni but I’m not sure that has improved social mobility, do you have data to show that? It’s undoubtedly a great experience for many dc but it’s often a requirement for jobs that never needed a degree for the generation previously. I think many young people would rather avoid the debt & still be able to access the same job market, don’t you?

I don’t understand your point about graduate tax vs working class paying? Surely if social mobility has improved by going to uni then they working classes would also have to pay for uni debt?

SpongeBabeSquarePants · 30/08/2024 03:35

Social inequality much higher in the UK so kids get down and anxious.
Stressed parents also reflect feelings to stressed kids.
Lack of social connection and loneliness all round.

Guavafish1 · 30/08/2024 03:29

I think the lack of family and society is the biggest issue.

saoirse31 · 30/08/2024 03:26

No idea really, not being British, but one thing that strikes me, mostly from being on here, is that a lot of your schools sound horrendous in terms of how pupils are treated ... Also your school year seems really long..

MO308002 · 30/08/2024 02:24

Blueybanditbingochilli · 29/08/2024 21:57

Sounds lovely (genuinely) but what time do they get up for school/nursery?

Edited
Show quote history

They get up for nursery about 0745/0800.

But they all have a 2- 3 hour nap until.the year they turn 3 and start school, at which point the have a 1 hour nap in the first year of school.

Oreoqueen87 · 30/08/2024 01:59

KnittedCardi · 29/08/2024 22:48

Do we have any insight into why Romania is the second happiest, when they have a pretty low standard of living, and all strive to emigrate the minute they can?

I have no real insights but have a few Romanian friends and have met many of their country people through them. They are all insanely stoic, they’ve seen truly hard quite recently and stuff doesn’t seem to get to them. The ones I know want a better quality of life, but not in a ‘flash car’ kind of way, more in a ‘securing the basics’ kind of way.

This attitude definitely seems to have filtered down to their teens. Plenty of parents of current Romanian teens will have lived through things like food shortages and facist rule. So maybe they’ve passed on a combination of stoicism and gratitude? They also seem to be socially well connected