UK teens the most unhappy in Europe

Yes, I spent so much time in changing rooms with friends trying on outfits, experimenting. Good times 😁

I'm not sure how much of your comparison is just a about different time as opposed to a different place. Your experience resonates with my experience of a UK childhood.

This also came with positive social connections. Going shopping with friends. The focus was on getting something and going out together. Not posting a social media picture to be judged.

One big question no one asks is - do the lower social classes actually want to move “up”? They might prefer living in their community but with less material wealth? Are we certain the lower classes are the least happy?

I haven’t mentioned class, I talked about relative poverty. I definitely think there is a link between that and mental health. And of course there are differences between healthy life expectancy in deprived areas vs less deprived areas.

“Female healthy life expectancy at birth in the most deprived areas was 19.3 years less than in the least deprived areas in 2018 to 2020, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS). For males it was 18.6 years less.”

I think that would make me unhappy!

True. The best bits of being a teen for me was all the unbelievable music we had in the 90s.

And the fantastic fashion/high street.

I know the Sutton Trust and IFS say social mobility is more difficult now

So you disagree with them?

but it’s also true that uni education has been offered to 6 times more young people than it wax in 1970

Of course it’s increased, there was a huge government drive to get young people to go to university, access was widened & as I said more jobs require degrees now. I’m sure far more young people have GCSEs and A-levels vs the equivalent in older generations because things do change.

This certainly has helped poorer dc access uni. I don’t think there’s much debate about that.

But you are the one who said social mobility has improved because more dc go to university?

We don't celebrate success in the UK. High earners are looked down on, people on big houses. If you don't have a culture of success that filters down. Ditto doing well in school is mocked.

Very sedentary, indoor lifestyle. Terrible diet.

True. The best bits of being a teen for me was all the unbelievable music we had in the 90s.

We need to tackle the level of unemployment. All else is just window dressing.

Unemployment isn’t low though.

You are talking about the economically inactive who aren’t looking for work. If you reduced the numbers down to pre pandemic levels & got those people into work there still aren’t enough workers…

I think the housing crisis has hit us because people have moved out of traditional communities and also the lack of law and order and policing of communities. Many places I have worked and lived in are just not safe for children.

@Nuggetnuggety I know the Sutton Trust and IFS say social mobility is more difficult now but it’s also true that uni education has been offered to 6 times more young people than it wax in 1970. I guess the big argument is has that stalled? Are there actually jobs available to allow for social mobility? One big question no one asks is - do the lower social classes actually want to move “up”? They might prefer living in their community but with less material wealth? Are we certain the lower classes are the least happy?

I do think that dc need expert guidance in careers and how to get them, and going to uni, isn’t the only route to happiness. Sometimes pushing and pushing to improve isn’t suitable for all.

My comment about paying “tax” referred to the days pre loans and the grad tax. The working classes and all tax payers paid for a small minority to go to uni. They didn’t go and their dc rarely went, with the huge expansion of the uni sector, it wasn’t fair to continue with funding degrees via general taxation, so we moved to loans and a payment scheme based on earnings. This certainly has helped poorer dc access uni. I don’t think there’s much debate about that.

Smartphones and social media.

Jonathan Haidt has done a lot of research into this, lots of charts showing the connection. He has a book on it.

Brief outline in his video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w6NfPHrVilc

^15.15. Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth.

I doubt most teenagers care or think about pensioners, I didn't! I'd give the stringent COVID lockdowns as a reason but presume that applies to the whole of Europe.

This. A lot.

We need to tackle the level of unemployment. All else is just window dressing.

On the continent, people seem more content with who they are.
That's something of a sweeping statement. I'm not even sure what it means!

I grew up abroad and one thing I noticed was that there is more pressure for British children to get excellent grades all around. Where I was no one cared that much and I went to middle class populated schools.

I also noticed that over there everyone wanted to be different and didn't want to be caught dead wearing the same stuff, sporting the same haircut etc. Here we aim for uniformity more. It's something you see as well among adults - the mums at my school look all the same: they wear the same sort of stuff, have the same haircut etc. The dads all seem to have variations of the same car. Everyone goes on the same sort of holidays, the same outings, etc. The pressure to conform feels much higher.

On the continent, people seemed more content with who they are.

Goes back to lack of community and being more isolated so you spend more time online rather than with real people

A possibility is much more early independent play creating more self assurance and strong local friendship groups.

Good point, and one I was wondering about!

the fact is we don’t have enough taxpayers for the level of service we expect. It can’t happen because we aren’t raising the tax revenue and the welfare bill is a shocker. It’s not a value judgement, just a fact.

I think you have misunderstood. I said similar & am fully aware of the facts. I just said there is a need to target wealth as we don’t have enough income tax payers.

Based in southern rural Germany (originally from the UK)

1. The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though).

Big difference. Summer seems to last a month or so longer (not in the maritime north, but the rest of the country). More time outside here and most are noticeably sensibly tanned at the end of the summer. Lots of time at the local lidos.

1. Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.

Very much. Children walk alone earlier and still meet on the streets (chalk drawings everywhere, even in the cities). Older people and other parents will step in and it isn’t seen as weird.

1. Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and it’s cheap and relaxed.

Lots to do locally so there aren’t big commutes.

Didn’t know youth clubs were gone from the uk.

1. Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.

Agree. It seems to come with much more pressure too and often a commute.

The exception here is swimming, which is taken seriously from age five. I do think this is important and there should be more emphasis on swimming in the UK.

1. Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.

Has increased but not as much as the UK and overall less costs as housing cheaper (unless in a major city).

1. Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors. Toilet control.

I hated this rubbish at my school in the UK. I remember it as a place of petty rules to be rebelled against, rather than a place of learning.

1. Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.

In the countryside yes and many houses inherited. Most cities have got much more expensive over the past 15 years.

1. Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.

1. Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.

Independent play early on will feed into resilience/ability to cope.

10. Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true).

Far more informal play and children are generally left to sort themselves out. In Germany there still is this freedom to walk, though in the cities this may be changing.

From children I know in the UK, an issue is that where there is unwillingness to let children go out and about they are given screens and can easily isolate themselves. I think Soham had a huge impact. That really was the case that could have been any of us.

11. Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?

Shorter nursery and school days. Positive for the kids, but a career killer.

12. Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)

13. Too much homework.

Still a fair amount here and I wish it was more creative in the younger years.

14. The diet.

Overall much better, much more fruit and veg which most kids will eat. Good food provided at kindergarten.

Obviously not perfect and still has its issues - Haribos and salami.

15.15. Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth.

16. Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Lack of activity and being outdoors plays a big factor.
Most people don't get out often and when we do because it's a nice day, then places are really busy and it's stressful getting there.
We don't spend enough time in calm outdoor spaces.

Not contradictory at all, thats the point I would have thought?

I have nieces and nephews in Germany. I'd say that things do seem to be more geared towards play when they're young. They don't start school until they're 6 or 7. Society seems to be more child friendly/family friendly as a whole. Plenty of massive parks and playgrounds. It feels safer walking around. My nephew is 8 and has been walking to school alone or with his friends, and gets the transport to town alone on a regular basis. I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable about that at all here.