To wish I could stop paying into the utterly broken NHS black hole

"That's fine - at the moment. But in countries where private healthcare is the norm, it only works so far: once you have X cancer, or X neurological condition, or X mental health condition, you are no longer covered and have to pay as you go. What then?" Well @GinnyPiggie I will leave it to @CornflowerSky as she has responded much better than I can.

But to reiterate: our only options are not a failing NHS or an abusive US-style private system.

I don't know much about the German health insurance system but see my later post about German health, healthcare, and expectations.

Taking on a German model would work if we were all German and didn't insist on e.g. painkillers for every little twinge!

One of the reasons we have much higher healthcare costs than we used to is because of longer life expectancy. However, another one is higher expectations of quality of life. There is nothing wrong with having a high expectation of quality of life, but we do have higher expectations than some other developed nations.

We also are much, much less active than Germans and have higher average BMI/rates of obesity despite lower calorie consumption.

Which countries are you referring to? This certainly isn't the case in France and Germany.

Do you realise there are many, many alternative systems that aren't simply 100% private or 100% state funded?

In Germany insurance is compulsory, but it's underwritten by the government so that if you can't afford it it's covered. No one falls through the gap. It's affordable and works incredibly well.

People seem to think it's either the NHS or the American system which simply isn't true.

That's fine - at the moment. But in countries where private healthcare is the norm, it only works so far: once you have X cancer, or X neurological condition, or X mental health condition, you are no longer covered and have to pay as you go. What then?

It needs root and branch reform, not more money slung at it. Whether this government is brave enough to do it remains to be seen.🤷‍♀️

The private healthcare we have in the UK could NEVER replace what we all need that we get from the NHS. Even the private healthcare that's available in the US couldn't (because it doesn't, because overall health is much worse there, and even those with money end up over-treated because it pays to treat - think of children with autism who get ABA which can be abusive, the trans scandals, making people lifelong patients and doing damaging surgeries, etc. etc.)

We as a family could never, ever afford the healthcare we've had under the NHS if we had to go private. Most of what we get wouldn't be covered, anyway - my DS has had a hospital admission for his epilepsy and we get immediate access to the epilepsy nurse when we call, she emails the consultant and he got back to us immediately even though he was on holiday! We don't even have a private children's hospital closer than an hour and a half from us. And that's without the exclusions for pre-existing conditions - my DD might be just about insurable but she's 10, and it's hardly worth it, the rest of us would be refused care for everything that ails us.

Private healthcare is also not joined up. We forgot a new medication that the hospital had prescribed for DS, which DH had put down in a different spot to the others. We rang 111, who rang the prescribing team, who rang a pharmacy in our destination in another English region, and we picked up the meds in 4 hours. If you sign up for one healthcare company, you aren't going to get the permission to see another company in the same way that it's impossible to get "out of network" care in the US unless you either beg and plead and get lucky, or pay through the nose.

Do grow up. You would owe them circa £100k for your childbirth.

I doubt that a quarter of your wage goes to the NHS alone.

You are b vvvvv u. And ridiculous.

It's one of the best-funded health services in the world and yet one of the worst performing. Pouring more money into it is only making it worse. It needs to go.

We have some of the worst cancer survival rates in the developed world despite it taking such a high portion of GDP.

The system is simply no longer fit for purpose. We need to stop mythologising the NHS, stop pouring money into it, and switch to a different system that is proven to work better (such as that of Germany).

There is nothing romantic or inherently good about a system that is killing people. It does NOT need more funding. It needs scrapping. But no political leaders dare touch it because it's been romanticised to such a sickening extent.

If you earn £30K then on average you are taking out more than you put in.

You have two children and have been treated for cancer in the past by the NHS. What you have put into the NHS will not have covered the costs of this.

And a week's worth of your wages absolutely do not go to the NHS. That's just not true, and you need to do some research on what actually happens with taxes.

The NHS is not in a good state right now because of years of a Tory government. It has a lot of problems, which Labour are trying to begin to resolve.

But starting a thread like this is ridiculous, OP. If you or someone you love were to have a major accident tomorrow then you would be very glad the NHS is there, and they are not being given a £20,000 bill before they can be treated.

£83 a month. That’s the amount that goes on health, per month, from the tax on a salary of £30k.

To be fair, OP probably doesn't pay far off it. My gross monthly income is roundabout £3100. Take home pay is £2500. Monthly I pay £425 tax and £165 national insurance totalling £590 in 'taxes'. So OP isn't too far off.

However I do agree that OP (and I) are not net contributers and that over my lifetime, I'll probably get my moneys worth out of the NHS.

Having experienced healthcare in France, I’d agree. The difference is astonishing.

The nhs left my mother so long with autoimmune disease I almost lost her to multiple organ failure at 12. She weighed about 6.5/7 stone, was yellow.

I’m sure she really appreciated their suggestion to see someone for mental health, but every organ in her body failing got in the way. My experiences have been no better.

I sympathise deeply. It’s shocking. I wish you good health and hope everything works out for you 💖

Well through my private insurance I can literally see a doctor whenever I need to, I pay a small excess for treatments in a private hospital and I am given choice and treated like an actual person.

I'm a big advocate for a national health system. What bothers me is the constant bowing and scraping as if we should be thankful for the miserly treatment we are afforded. As other posters have said-it's not a race to the bottom, and we have a right as tax paying citizens to hold the NHS to account. The NHS is meant to work for us, not the other way around.

The OP should absolutely have been referred and be receiving treatment on the NHS. The criteria that resulted in the referral being bounced back are directly linked to the chronic underfunding of the NHS.

The NHS desperately needs more funding. Calling it a ‘black hole’ and saying you’re paying a weeks worth of wages a month to the NHS and not getting care is not just exaggeration it’s damaging misinformation.

This.

YANBU to be angry under the circumstances.

The problem is a decade and a half of deliberate erosion of the NHS by a Tory govt under the thumb of the private health care system.

Relatives in countries with insurance-based systems pay absolutely unaffordable amounts for their healthcare.

I've been on three cancer pathways over the past few years and had investigations done really promptly. Struggling to get a routing mammogram currently though - was offered one when i turned 50 which I couldn't attend due to work schedule and have never bene offered another since ( am now 56). have tried phoning and emailing the appropriate places and no-one ever answers either.

Such a race to the bottom attitude

It's only supposed to be good if you give birth or have a car accident??

Wtf.

What about the other 90% of medical necessities?

You could stop paying a week's wages to the NHS, but you'd then be paying 2 weeks' wages to a private healthcare company or similar, who would actually still charge you when you needed an ambulance.

YANBU

Ive had to have more contact with the nhs over the last few years and it’s been a complete eye opener in the worst possible ways. The wasting of resources, the ridiculous bureaucracy and extreme inefficiency was insane and frankly insulting to all tax payers.

People keep saying ‘there’s just not enough funding, it needs more money.’ No. The nhs right now is a bucket with giant holes in the bottom. The answer is not pouring more water in so it can pour right out the bottom. We need to actually fix the holes.

YANBU. Everyday I thank my lucky stars for my private family health insurance. I can speak to a doctor same day. The wait at my GPs surgery was 10 weeks.... I will never move jobs to one that doesn't have private healthcare. This would not have occured to me 10 years ago.

Sorry to derail thread but was it bright red? DD is having similar at the moment and not sure what to do..!