School Uniforms?

I come from a country where we don’t wear school uniform, and kind of find it oddly fascinating how the British regard uniform so importantly (for want of a better word)

However, I did move here in my teens so I did wear uniform (in the early noughties) back then, it was trousers or skirt, white polo t shirt and a school sweater. Now, it’s all blazers, shirts and ties and that is what I don’t understand.

If you insist on uniform, for all the reasons the British think it’s needed, why not make it as comfortable and practical as possible? Just polos and school sweaters. Why on earth are we even thinking that some schools have children as young as 5 in shirts and ties? It’s completely non sensical.

They don’t look smart. Children aren’t meant to look smart. They look like mini politicians. Also, how many women actually wear ties in the workplace? I don’t see how it helps them be ready for the real world. If when they’re adults, the profession they choose requires them to wear those clothes, then that’s when they wear them.

What is the reason for ties?? Can anyone explain?

I have sympathy - dd was a rule follower and the rules at school were not always easy to follow and she found herself at times accidentally going wrong and being punished - which she found upsetting. The thing is because the school were so silly about rules and dd was a stickler - we used the situation to encourage her to relax about rule following - target one detention a year, so she wouldn't feel so anxious, and detentions weren't so bad, the world didn't end - encouraged her to say no to teachers to give her the confidence to say no to authority. She managed to say no a few times over small things and got two detentions and we celebrated her non-compliance - not exactly rebel status but it did help her feel less anxious.
We all have different aspects of personal development to work on - being a rule follower can be a big source of anxiety to many kids and learning to break rules is liberating for them.

Why do British pupils who are at a uniform school have such difficulties when those at non uniform schools around the world don’t?

I have a child starting at secondary school next week. He is a good lad who hates being in trouble, especially at school. The school website asks for at least five items that have to be the specific logoed ones from the school supplier. They say that just because a shop sells something in their school uniform section, it does not mean it meets the school's requirements. They also say that they are the final arbiters of what is acceptable. They put a child in isolation all day for incorrect uniform.

Most young people want to follow the rules and have as easy a time at school as possible. The majority of parents want to make life at school as easy as possible for their children. I think schools should try harder to work with families to allow this to happen.

I work in financial services and on Thursday I wore barrel leg jeans, a stripey top and Converse. Nobody cares. My boss is the MD and he mostly wears a Bath rugby shirt!

I do a desk job in the NHS. In summer I wear floral skirts and dresses and sandals, colourful tops and sport blue hair. In winter I wear knee length knit dresses in a range of colours, tights with and without patterns woven in (think toadstools, pumpkins, skulls, snowflakes, cats) and floral print laceup boots. My hair tends to be purple. Nobody gives a damn because I am good at my job.

If we have official visits, I'll go corporate. The rest of the time it just isn't necessary. Some people need to come in out of the 19th century.

DT’s have never wore school uniform (neither have their cousins in US, Belgium and France). No policing of uniform needed nor behaviour issues. It’s a UK uniform school problem.

I've never seen the point in uniform - most of Europe doesn't bother and behaviour is no different, if not better, in most countries. Children also don't compete about clothing the way they do over here if there is a non-uniform day, because it's nothing special, so while some are more stylish than others, anything too extreme would usually be ridiculed enough it becomes a one-off learning experience for the child.

I hate having to police shirts being tucked in, ties, blazers to be on, skirts being too short. I'd like to start the day on a positive note with my students but I cannot, because the second they leave my classroom without following expectations they'd be pulled up on it (and so would I) and numerous learning walks mean I cannot even give them a bit more freedom in my own classroom. That's not even counting break duty. Instead of being able to have positive interactions with students I'm forever having to remind them about their shirts.

Just let them be comfortable!

My GCs school has now got stricter on PE kits because they've noticed how the behaviour of the boys drops considerably when wearing their football kits etc. Their uniform are polos and nothing has to be logo'd.

How will they manage when they go to Uni. It sounds like they need more practice!

Rubbish, they're not doing anything of the sort. Even if they were, most people at my 'desk job' don't wear the sort of uncomfortable, inflexible and old fashioned crap that schools expect kids to put up with.

And no angst here whatsoever about non-uniform days.

@RuthW loads of the lessons at secondary aren't sat at a desk.
Art, DT, PE, Drama, Dance, Music, Cooking.
Science is usually a lab so ties are not very practical.

This.

A mufti day took a couple of weeks planning to get the outfit right.

Secondary kids are doing a 'desk job' so therefore should be dress accordingly and smart.

@llamajohn it doesn't matter if I bought it in May or August - I still had to buy it. Poor quality, badly fitting horrible clothes.
To be honest it wasn't the expense I had issues with - it was the stupid idea of blazers and ties on tiny children and the pettiness/fuss they made if a child came in wearing white socks instead of grey.
My daughter left the school years ago now. They had a terrible Ofsted a couple of years after she left. Loads of parents were pulling their children out.
They have now relaxed the uniform a lot. They can even wear those check dresses in summer now - my daughter's era weren't even allowed to take of their ties when it was a heatwave.
Maybe the bad Ofsted made them re think their priorities.

But you would have had 3+ months to buy the uniform?

We found out our primary school back in May. All uniform (including the logo stuff) except shoes was bought by end of June.

@SmashingPumps my daughter's primary (regular state, not even an academy) had blazers, ties, branded jumpers and branded PE t-shirts. All only available from one specific shop.
Girls were told off if they wore "blouses" rather than shirts - despite you could barely tell the difference.
It was a pain in the arse.

@OneFastDuck
I don't think I spend any less on out of school clothes because they wear uniform. My DC wear non school uniform every day they'd just wear it all day if they didn't have to wear uniform for school like they do in the holidays.
They'd be able to have more suitable footwear for walking to and from school and playing football at lunchtime so I'd probably spend less overall on trainers.
If they didn't have to have specific PE kit they could use the training stuff they wear for out of school football and gym.
Mine have to have a coat that can fit in their school bag as they can't wear coats over their blazer inside the school which narrows down choice so we end up with home and school coats.

I'm a fan of uniform, provided it's sensible and affordable. Lots of people say primary school uniform should be tracksuit bottoms and polo shirts. One of my DC hated the feel of both of those.

If it was up to me I'd have something like
Bottoms in x colour. Be that black, grey, navy. Skirts, shorts, trousers or tracksuit bottoms.
White shirt/blouse/polo.
Jumper in whatever colour school chose.
Summer dresses in any colour. I hated as a child that they had yellow ones in the shop but i could only wear red!

And it would be the same list for girls and boys too.

I don’t get this thinking- the kids all know who has money and who doesn’t.

’plain black shoes’ can be doc martens, lelli Kelly or Asda, same with coats/bags etc.

Then there are the cars they arrive in, the holidays they take, the birthday parties etc etc.

@Needmorelego makes some good points, but I would also like to add this: with non-uniform clothes, they tend to be added to bit by bit throughout a year. And with teenagers, after a certain age they just stop growing quite so fast, so things last.

Uniform has to be bought all in one go - especially if you're in one of those academies that has frequent uniform changes in order to screw money out of parents so they can get kickbacks from the suppliers deal with all the problems the school might have in one fell swoop. Parents may well be able to manage piecemeal outlay throughout the year and yet struggle with a large one-off outlay.

Lastly, once the teenager leaves school, most uniform is no longer fit for resale. The blazer might be - that's pretty much it. The rest gets binned or (we hope) recycled. Whereas my kids transitioned seamlessly to university with the same clothes they had been wearing at their non-uniform 6th form and at home for years.

@OneFastDuck the hoodies my daughter (age 16) and her mates like come from Primark and are usually about £7 if plain colours or a tenner if they have a character/picture on.
I could get about 6 hoodies for the price of one blazer.
Although I don't know why you would need 5 hoodies vs 1 blazer.
If the hoodie needs a wash it gets a wash. If the blazer needs a wash it gets a wash.
What's the difference?

It's like £200 for uniform that's half their clothes for the year. Surely you'd send tons more on normal clothes? Yes you still have to buy some but they only get half the wear.

A hoody a teenager wants easily costs more than a blazer and you'd need 5 for the year vs 1 blazer. Imagine the cost of trainers/ shoes if they wore them the whole time!

Even tops you just need so few compared to 365days of normal clothes.

I do understand the specifying calculators though - just for ease of teaching them use of it it's handier if they all have the buttons in the same places and labelled exactly the same thing.

Our Maths department though need to update their recommended model as it's been discontinued!

Our most local no longer outstanding secondary (but still trying to trade on the reputation they had for years) has changed their school logo in minor variations about 4 times over the last 10 years - meaning uniform (they have logoed everything they can) has also changed as well. Decimates the second hand market and is a nice shot in the arm for the suppliers... ho hum.

My kids' school is a small academy trust - they keep the blazers and PE kit the same for the secondaries in the trust (thus more stuff available second hand) and just distinguish the schools via the tie, and the non-compulsory logoed jumper. They also tell parents at the new parents meetings not to go nuts on the jumpers as the buildings run pretty hot inside (I don't think the heating is the most modern system they can adjust easily - the school's due to be rebuilt soon) and also really push going for the affordable supermarket options where possible. I like their approach.

They've also ran consultations and reduced the rules on things like shoes, and worked with the older girls to develop a middle ground on PE shorts last year where they researched and found alternatives to the very short Nike style shorts that weren't allowed, but that still found female shorts that could be OKed for PE lessons. It's nice to see that level of pragmatism and working WITH the kids and the families. Even our uniform reminders as skirt lengths crept up have been along the lines of "look, they've grown, the skirt that worked in September isn't quite working in June - can you have a look at it" rather than really snarky laying down the law stuff.

And because they're more relaxed on things like allowing supermarket stuff - the kids don't try to eek out years out of the same horrendously overpriced logo skirt which never fit well on certain body types anyway... so they look smarter in the long run.