School Uniforms?

I went to a non uniform girls' school for 4 years back in the late 80s early 90s and there was definitely daily, low level unkindness, based on what people wore. 20 years or so after I left, the school introduced a practical, smart uniform. Much better in my view.

Nah I disagree, sure was still called povvo and it was obvious, but the relentlessness of day to day being bullied and berated for not having decent clothes would have been infinitely worse- regardless of the bullying for being poor. I agree it doesn't stop it, but it does make one small aspect of life slightly easier. It doesn't mean uniform should be so formal and pricey though.

I agree with this. I do actually think uniforms are good- I grew up in a chaotic, poor household and it was a leveller. That said, it should be affordable and accessible; black/navy/grey trousers/skirts/shorts, plain polos/t shirts/shirts, plain jumpers/cardigans and black shoes/trainers.

YABU - uniforms are cheaper than most clothes/brands for children - particularly teens who really care what ‘label’ they wear or what style.
I love uniforms because it’s simple, stops arguments about what is and isn’t suitable for school, and is a great leveller.
As one of the many ‘poor’ kids at school InHATED non uniform days because my clothes were a mix of home made and 2nd hand. Found it really stressful.

And as for the ‘safety’
Concerns - get a grip. Our kids are the most coddled,
protected and watched over ever - we can’t start adding dressing then all in none identifying clothes too

This. K8ds will bully. If uniform were a preventive against bullying, the UK would have lower rates than in comparable countries. We don't. You tackle bullying by coming down hard on it, not by bringing in a new badge or blazer.

Kids can still be bullied for being poor, they can be the ones who's uniform is falling to bits, doesn't fit right and often hasn't been washed. It makes zero difference having a uniform to bullying.

Think back to your own school days, and I bet you can remember who the poor kids were whether you had uniform or not.

Thos is why we need to value skills education more. In the Netherlands, if you go the vocational route in school, you absolutely do take English, Dutch and maths. They're compulsory. But the courses are tailored to the training the students are taking. So no Shakespeare, but learning how to write and read business correspondence, technical writing, bookkeeping. It's functional and aimed at equipping students for work.

My brother got a degree in electronic engineering - he couldn’t write for toffee - didn’t pass his GCSE - the technical college fudged a module to give him an equivalent qualification to allow him to enter Uni. He did need to be able to write though and he taught himself by copying people at work - I’ve seen the same in the engineers and mathematicians we employ - they can’t express themselves adequately in written form and they need to be able to - but at work they find it purposeful communication and it’s a skill they want to pick up - most manage it - if they don’t it’s career limiting.

I personally think a uniform is a great idea because it helps kids from poorer backgrounds who may only have one pair of shoes and a couple of outfits to wear. If they turned up in the same outfit every day, you can bet your bottom dollar they would be badly bullied. Likewise if a child doesn’t have the latest, coolest clothes all of the time. Having a uniform prevents that nonsense.

The only issue I have is the price of the logo things. I think schools should get rid of logo jumpers/blazers and just have a plain coloured one.

I fully agree with this. The UK curriculum doesn't serve anyone. Again, we should be looking at how other countries do this. A child with a massive talent for automotive engineering doesn't need to cram Shakespeare. There's nothing wrong with specialising according to aptitude, as long as it's done well and means all kinds of talent are valued, not just academia.

My kids went to their non uniform 6th form in hoodies, floppy jumpers and flannel men's shirts. And managed to get good A levels. Amazing! When it's non uniform, they wear their own clothes and if everything is clean and covered, it's suitable for school.

I went to school with a high number of children from disadvantaged backgrounds and a few genuine oddballs. All of them managed to turn up each morning in a school uniform.

As a nation we are getting pretty damn pathetic.

Amazing how the majority of the western world manage non uniform without problem

Uniform should be simple and - with the exception of logoed items - obtainable from supermarket/high street. Tie wearing is ridiculous. Learning is what they are at school for so they should not be wasting their time on tying a tie. Other countries think we are bonkers

I don't know any teens that are obsessed with designer labels that half of Mumsnet seems to claim.
All the teens I know get their clothes from Primark or H+M (or Shein 🙁) or they experiment styles with secondhand.

I wholeheartedly agree. Also, it lessens bullying in a way. If a child doesn’t wear designer, if they dress ‘weird’, if they wear the same outfit twice that week - kids will find any excuse to bully/pick on if children wore their own clothes to school. My parents didn’t have a lot of money and I was so grateful for school uniform so I didn’t get picked on for having ‘cheap’ clothes.

Yes quite :)

Must have been a school in the UK with a school uniform?

Thank goodness DT’s school was non uniform.

The evidence of working in a school day to day.

@Flyhigher so what does she wear when she isn't "going out"?
You said she's going to college not school. Why wouldn't she wear jumpers and hoodies to college?

DT’s school and their cousins in France, Belgium and the US- all non uniform didn’t have behaviour or lack of respect issues- all high achieving schools.

What evidence do you have?

Where is a under 18 year old going out that she needs a going out wardrobe - I lack imagination - so humour me please.

What is wrong is schools wasting time policing uniform violations - doesn’t happen in non uniform schools. As for pupils having to ask permission to take off their blazer - totally ridiculous.

When it was warmer DT’s wore shorts and T-shirt. In cooler weather, jeans and a hoodie. No monitoring required.

Because ultimately, it’s down to a number of factors. Uniform included. But it all ultimately boils down to the curriculum (as one of the main factors). Having taught both curriculums across primary (and yes I am actually a teacher whether you want to believe it or not) teaching eyfs ultimately is better than teaching the national curriculum.

Other countries, such as some of the ones mentioned on here don’t put pressure on the children within it to learn things they will barely use again in their careers, and focus on teaching practical and life skills.
When I taught ks2 I HAD to teach myself before I taught the children, which isn’t right! I’ve been through the same system they are going through.
So yes, ultimately it doesn’t necessarily boil down to uniform, but then, the debate has gone a bit further than that since the OPs post.

Summer it's more relaxed a lot of the time.
School wear is different. The sloppy jumpers and hoodies she wears all summer are t really school wear either.