To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

It doesn’t matter why someone is overweight the risks are exactly the same

Nobody ever says this!

“It’s not my fault I’m fat”. It doesn’t matter you’ll still get diabetes, heart disease etc.

And I say this as someone who has to work really fucking hard to not be obese but I do work at it because I want to keep my health and mobility into old age.

@lemonpepperlady you made me cry.

A addict shows similar behaviour. Well done to your friend, well done to you.

All those saying she must know she likely has a lifestyle that doesn’t push outside comfort zone. If she drives everywhere, sedentary job it’s very easy not to realise how unfit you are.
She was perhaps talking about it because she was trying to convince herself it wasn’t her but the big hill/steep stairs etc.

the thing is (only quoting your post because you were first, lots of others have said the same thing), in OP's case I don't think her friend does know how unhealthy it is.

Skinny doesn't equal healthy and fat doesn't equal unhealthy. I know obese people who can run half marathons no problem and skinny people who couldn't catch a bus. Look at the Olympics and some of the female rugby players for example, one of them posted a lot on insta, one about how her BMI was technically obese but she's an olympic athlete. That is what 'body positivity' should be - accepting 'healthy' bodies come in all shapes and sizes, and even 'unhealthy' bodies are attractive and can lead equally full and happy lives.

But some BP take it too far, it's almost like the pro-anorexia groups in the 90s - it's almost like a cult where people are in an echo chamber telling each other they are fine and the media/everyone else is wrong and exaggerating. Because it's mainly cheerful, well-groomed people in their 20s/30s, who can live a comparatively normal life now, despite being (in some cases) hugely overweight they are completely unaware of the huge health issues they will have in ten, twenty, thirty years.

The fact that OPs friend equates self care to having her nails and hair done rather than eating healthily and undertaking exercise you enjoy, not for the purpose of losing weight,

The purpose of BP is to show that bigger people can still lead as full, fun, happy lives as slim people. OP's friend can't do that - she's reframing the truth (I couldn't walk at a slow pace up a slight incline) to 'they expected me to sprint up a massive hill, of course nobody could be expected to do that, there's nothing wrong with me.'

I'm not trying to be patronising, most BP people absolutely do understand their weight is unhealthy but some absolutely have buried their head in the sand to such a degree that they really don't comprehend it, or at least not to the full extent - they understand 'yeah I'm not as healthy as my marathon runner mate,' but not 'I am putting so much strain on my body that my life expectancy is drastically shortened.'

I still don't think that commenting when you were with others was necessarily the right thing to do - all the others were with you on the holiday so they knew it wasn't a steep incline and the reason she struggled was because she is very obese, so you didn't necessarily need to declare it, discussing it with her in private probably would have gone down better.

I think the 'fat acceptance' movement is fading, partly because lots of its loudest voices have died..
You saying something to your friend may have annoyed her but if she's a reasonable person, she'll reflect on it and hopefully look at why she overeats.

I have a friend who is a vocal body positivity advocate.
She talks online about her various health struggles.
She often talks peri-menopause, and she’s under 40.
Gets upset about fat-phobic GPs, who need to “stay in their lane” as if they don’t see older versions of her every day…
She is as also proud of her seatbelt extender “moment”.

Judgement and shame drive people further into denial and self-hatred which is not a place likely to result in sustained positive change. In contrast, self-acceptance and self-care are a good standpoint from which to begin to make other choices that appreciate your body. See for example Sharoo Izadi's kindness method. Fundamentally, OP, if this is a tricky and very personal issue, that your friend has not invited you into, then you've crossed a major line.

I suppose it depends what was the intent behind what you said and the timing. Was it just about being concerned about her health (if that was the case I think you could have brought it up when you were alone) or was it also about showing her that she is deluded or 'in the wrong' and that you are right. If it was mostly about the latter then you know I understand why she is feeling annoyed or hurt.

At size 30, she must know that she's an unhealthy weight

You’d think so but not necessarily. One slogan/hashtag in the body positivity movement that people often use is “health at every size”

HAES has slightly different interpretations but many people take it to mean that there’s no such thing as an unhealthy weight.

Hi OP, could you write your friend a nice letter, apologising for talking about her health in front of other friends? Tell her you are genuinely worried about her health - you love her to bits and want you both to live to 100 so you can have as much fun as possible for as long as possible. To live to 100, you will both need to eat healthily and exercise regularly etc. Tell her if she wants to meet up with you, she is free to “have a go at you” for talking about her health in front of others. Send a nice bunch of flowers too. That’s what I would do anyway.

Torn on this but overall feel you are unreasonable. First, she knows she is fat. No one fat, including me, does not know. And feel ashamed of it on some level. That shame is toxic, it does not help people lose weight, it actually makes it more likely they will over eat. So body positivity - that you are you not the size you wear - is good from that perspective. On the other hand, we want people to be as healthy as possible when we love them. Having said that, I would never comment on someone elses weight or size unless they directly asked me to.

I wouldn't have said anything personally, but you're obviously right in what you think. I'm sure she is aware that she cannot do things other people can do because of her weight, it's more likely she is using other things like body positivity to convince herself she is fine, but she knows she's not really. Going out and pretending to be fine and spending lots of money on her hair etc is just a way of making her feel better about herself. The alternative would be that she might just end up staying indoors. What people say in public and what they think about when alone is often totally different. She's probably overwhelmed with her weight problem and doesn't think she can fix it so is pretending it doesn't matter.

People saying friend realises she’s fat and unhealthy, it was the friend who was pushing the story about it being a steep hill and pushing her theories about body positivity. It’s not like she was just quiet on the subject and OP put her on the spot, she was actively wanting to have a conversation about the subject of fatness vs body positivity and health etc and OP just gave her opinion on it rather than being fake and agreeing with her.

Sometimes good friends have to say uncomfortable things not just what their friends want to hear. I always respect friends who are honest with me. Hopefully OP’s friend can recover from the shock aspect and see OP for the caring friend that she is.

She will realise soon enough when she has health consequences from her size

No, obviously not, but maybe they would realise they needed help.

If you truly love this friend as a sister you need to apologise and say something along the lines of' I'm so sorry I embarrassed you, tell me to f**k off if you wish'.
I'm a sober alcoholic. It's not the same.
My BFF told me my weight loss surgery would not work if I carried on drinking. Blunt but true.
I work in a glamorous industry and have beautiful expensive clothes. Nothing compares to shopping with friends on the high street. Big people rage about lack of line extensions but the larger clothes are polyester crap in this country that's why your friend spends money on hair and grooming.
I was a size 24, drank 5 bottles of wine a week and have a lovely husband. I was desparately unhappy. Is your friend unhappy? Therapy will be more useful than diet clubs and slim fast. Slimming world works on people with huge appetites due to being carb heavy. But as a former drinker I can tell you each bottle of wine is 600-900 calories.
If your friend is pre diabetic she could have the slimming jab through her GP. Her bmi would allow it. It works for most people and it would save her a lot of heartache literally later on.
I'm now a size 18 and dropping. I'm very tall. I wish I'd lost the weight years ago.
Giving up the booze stopped me scoffing cheese, crisps & curries.
I am disabled so I can't run etc but I can swim. I think you mentioned your friend does this.
You are going to have to suck it up as you've hurt her. Don't leave it, do it today. Good luck.

I'm all for body positivity WHEN it's combined with activity and movement. I love to see bigger bodies doing yoga, hiking, running and all sorts. THAT is what's healthy (mentally and physically). I can understand why you had to say something about the hill/walking when she brought it up. It is worrying in somebody you care for.
I would sit down and talk to her again about that. Not mentioning weight, simply talking about walking more. Can you meet up to walk each week? or do a walking or steps challenge together? how much activity do you do? Not all slimmer people are healthily active, they just get away with it for longer.

At size 30, she must know that she's an unhealthy weight. I think it's unkind for friends to point that out to her

Absolutely, but unfortunately in some circles it is being used to celebrate morbid obesity, which shouldn’t be celebrated any more than anorexia. It doesn’t help that so many people now think they have a right to have their choices validated by others and to not be offended. People absolutely have the right to go about their life without being bullied or harassed for how they look, but too many people are using ‘body positivity’ to shut down conversations about the health risks of obesity or even to pretend the risks are hugely exaggerated when they are not.

Do you think someone in the midst of anorexia would simply start eating if you expressed concern?

Nope, but equally, if they kept espousing the benefits of having your ribs showing or talking about thigh gap I am perfectly entitled not to go along with that or agree its a great idea and something we should all aspire to.

@treesandflowers95 I think you can only say something privately to her like, I’m sorry if you are upset; you’re my friend and I was frightened how you view that hill as steep, how you struggled with stairs and I’m scared of losing you. Not about body size but purely want you to have a happy healthy life. She brought the hill up - you’re not going to agree it was steep, the only thing you could have done is say something later, but hindsight is great …

I personally don't think a real friend lets someone wreck their health without at least saying something. Not the best time to do it, but I'm not sure there ever is a good time.

Do you think someone in the midst of anorexia would simply start eating if you expressed concern?

I think people are being a bit harsh on you OP- you have admitted you shouldn't have said anything and it was badly timed and its clear you love your friend and care about her wellbeing.

The difficulty is- you didnt just bring it up out of the blue, SHE is bringing up the topic constantly and presumably wanting conversations about it? Thats why I dont think what you did was that bad. Obviously, if she never mentioned weight and you suddenly brought the topic up that would be insensitive and inappropriate but you ARE allowed to disagree with a friend's views on something if they keep bringing the topic up.

There are topics my friends sometimes express views on that I dont agree with and we both express our differing views respectfully and acknowledge that everyone has different perspectives. I would never feel like I had to just agree with everything they said to keep the peace because its not possible for everyone to agree with everyone on every topic- thats just life and life will be very hard for you if you cannot tolerate that.

I would assume that if she cannot handle opposing views on body positivity then she shouldn't continue to bring up the topic incessantly. Or, if she does, she needs to accept that not everyone will agree with her all the time.

She's obviously very much in denial and the body positivity talk is her way of avoiding cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, there may come a time when her health starts to really be impacted in a very serious way and then she will have no choice but to address it. All you can do is be there for her when she is ready.