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To be shocked this isn't getting more coverage?

411 replies

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 08:51

Women in Afghanistan are now forbidden from speaking when not inside their homes. A simple "hello" to someone in a shop is now against the law. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/26/taliban-bar-on-afghan-women-speaking-in-public-un-afghanistan

AIBU to think this is some of the most horrific news I've heard in months? I can't wrap my head around it and I can't help thinking - activists/newspapers/politicians are loud when campaigning about the gender pay gap or the state of child care or a woman's rights to her own body but somehow on this topic no one wants to criticise too often or too loudly.

Is it because religion is mixed in? Or guilt over the war? Or do politicians in particular only care about women's rights when it's a vote-winner in their constituency? Or is it just that it's so terrible and we all feel so powerless to prevent it that we just prefer to ignore the situation?

I'm feeling v v shaken.

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Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 09:53

DodoTired · 28/08/2024 09:47

excuse me, Soviet Union?? Do you know anything about it to mention it in the same sentence as Taliban??
Women had equal rights with men much earlier than in the UK and there were a lot of women in STEM professions compared to the UK. There were no SAHMs.

The PP described the Soviet Union as a more extreme form of government, which it was, surely? She didn't claim the Soviet Union oppressed women like the Taliban do. My reading of the PP's comment was that she was describing her childhood opinions, at a time when the Soviet Union was a big topic in Western news.

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Blondiebeachbabe · 28/08/2024 09:53

Until 1972, women in this region dressed exactly like we do today. Can you imagine the horror, of being there at the time that these new laws came in?

It is predicted, that the UK could be majority Muslim, by 2050.

Let that sink in.

Crystallizedring · 28/08/2024 09:53

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 09:19

Surely there's a big difference between a public outcry and outright war?

We could publicly condemn the Taliban, publicly call out Trump and Boris Johnson (and others too of course) for allowing the Taliban to regain control, we could try to further enshrine the rights of women into our laws and societies.

I don't know, I guess I just want some public acknowledgment that it is a truly f-ed situation and that the women of Afghanistan (and other countries as well) deserve so much more.

But what do you really think that will achieve? Holding government to account and condemning the Taliban isn't going to help those women?
To make a difference it will mean going to war but I'm not sure that is going to happen and will mean so many innocent people dying.

DodoTired · 28/08/2024 09:47

valadon68 · 28/08/2024 08:59

It is completely heartbreaking.

When I was a child I used wonder about why there wasn't more international resistance to extreme forms of government like there was in the Soviet Union etc. I felt innocently smug about being born in enlightened times. Now I'm in the position of better understanding the past through our helplessness in the present and becoming resigned to it, rather than drawing lessons from the past to help resist horrible situations in the present. What can we do - other than becoming UN special rapporteurs or reporters or diplomats or whatever and making a tiny, local dent in the situation?

excuse me, Soviet Union?? Do you know anything about it to mention it in the same sentence as Taliban??
Women had equal rights with men much earlier than in the UK and there were a lot of women in STEM professions compared to the UK. There were no SAHMs.

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:43

Followyouinto · 28/08/2024 09:36

@Octavia64 I fundamentally disagree with this. If the taliban want food and money then they can meet western demands for women’s rights. Sacrificing women for the ‘greater good’ is not okay.

The taliban don't want food and money.

They don't care whether their population starves or not.

The UN are trying to keep these people fed because they do care if people starve to death.

Takoneko · 28/08/2024 09:42

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:03

There isn't a public outcry because there is very little we can do.

The U.K. has invaded Afghanistan I think three or four times in the last 200 years.

The soviets, the Americans and us have all tried to drag them out of their backward tribal culture which oppresses women.

Ultimately the men in Afghanistan are prepared to fight for their country and their right to do what they want in it which includes treating women terribly.

All of the invasions were fought and ultimately the Afghans won.

So no, unless you want to suggest that a country invades Afghanistan and puts it's soldiers lives on the line (and lots of them will die) to protect the women of Afghanistan then there is nothing to be done.

I think it’s really important to say that this isn’t a traditional, medieval way of life that the west has tried valiantly to save Afghanistan from.

In the 70s women in Afghanistan had better equality than women in the U.K.. 15% of their legislative body was women (the figure in the U.K. did not get above 10% until 1997). 40% of doctors were women back in the 70s.

The Taliban emerged from the mujahideen which was backed by the US and U.K. during the Soviet Afghan War. They didn’t come to power in Afghanistan until the 90s. This isn’t some traditional way of life that the west has tried to save Afghanistan from. It’s an historical aberration forced onto Afghan women by militia groups that were armed and funded by western powers to undermine the Soviets.

minsmum · 28/08/2024 09:42

I don't think Afghan women can go to male doctors and women aren't being allowed education

IncessantNameChanger · 28/08/2024 09:40

It's terrifying and sickening. I'm not following any news by choice so didn't know.

As an aside, how will their children be socialised? Imagine all the things you kill off when you can't talk to anyone? The gp, the teachers,,your mum? I can't see these men stepping in to talk for their families.

If everyone is dumbed down its easier to peddle bullshit like in medieval days when the earth was flat

Ellerby83 · 28/08/2024 09:40

In the 80s South Africa weren't allowed to play international sport but Afghanistan sent teams to the Olympics, play in cricket World cups etc

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 09:39

Followyouinto · 28/08/2024 09:36

@Octavia64 I fundamentally disagree with this. If the taliban want food and money then they can meet western demands for women’s rights. Sacrificing women for the ‘greater good’ is not okay.

Yes, that's my first reaction as well. Helping the Taliban feed their people with no concessions by them is just propping up their government, surely? Leading to longer term suffering.

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Followyouinto · 28/08/2024 09:36

@Octavia64 I fundamentally disagree with this. If the taliban want food and money then they can meet western demands for women’s rights. Sacrificing women for the ‘greater good’ is not okay.

turbonerd · 28/08/2024 09:36

I agree with you completely. It is horrendous. In addition, if an afghan woman or girl as much as looks at a man that is not in her immediate family she will be punished because it compromises the family’s honour.

But how? Already in a nikab, shut in the house, married off at 9 in the worst case scenarios. It is atrocious, but short of the women taking up arms themselves there is little that can be done from the outside bar supporting charities that fight for their rights.

Edit: there have been reports of protests outside some Afghan embassies in European countries. Not sure how much of an impact that has.

Followyouinto · 28/08/2024 09:34

At the end of the day it’s only women affected. So it seems no one cares. I wouldn’t hold your breath for protests like those we are seeing about Gaza.

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:32

The UN is currently trying to get food assistance and cash into the country in an effort to make sure that the entire population doesn't starve.

If the taliban cannot feed their people there will be a refugee crisis similar to the Syrian one with millions in the move. Nobody wants that, least of all the countries near Afghanistan.

I am a woman. I object to the taliban's oppression of women. Many Muslims object to the taliban's oppression of Muslims (a lot of Muslim countries have not recognised them as a state).

However if the only way to get food and cash into the country and stop the whole country starving is to not discuss women's rights then I would do it.

A Muslim point of view here:

aje.io/k9dhi1

Fluufer · 28/08/2024 09:30

Because it is our fault. Because it isn't the first or last time we poke our noses in then bow out and leave behind a dictatorship regime of some kind. And because there is no easy solution.

RickyBobbysKFC · 28/08/2024 09:27

I have no idea what can be done. An outcry, a protest, anything will just be ignored.

Being honest, I’m terrified that it could happen here. Maybe I’ve read too many dystopian novels.

Ireolu · 28/08/2024 09:27

I watch the news a fair amount and had not seen this. This is appallingly horrific. The lack of coverage is also really bad and speaks to the worlds perceived insignificance of their plight. So sad.

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 09:26

Viviennemary · 28/08/2024 09:21

Exactly what is anyone supposed to do about it. The change needs to come from within.

But for example when the US rowed back on abortion rights, there were loads of articles about it in other countries, loads of discussions here in Europe, and UK politicians made their positions clear.

We didn't just shrug and say we can't do anything about the US and change has to come from within. I mean, I agree that it has to be American voters pushing for change but that doesn't stop the rest of the world from having an opinion.

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notimagain · 28/08/2024 09:26

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:03

There isn't a public outcry because there is very little we can do.

The U.K. has invaded Afghanistan I think three or four times in the last 200 years.

The soviets, the Americans and us have all tried to drag them out of their backward tribal culture which oppresses women.

Ultimately the men in Afghanistan are prepared to fight for their country and their right to do what they want in it which includes treating women terribly.

All of the invasions were fought and ultimately the Afghans won.

So no, unless you want to suggest that a country invades Afghanistan and puts it's soldiers lives on the line (and lots of them will die) to protect the women of Afghanistan then there is nothing to be done.

….and of course if the Brits/US/whoever did decide to “do something”, anything, there would be useful idiots of the left, by the thousand, calling any such effort out as intervention by colonialist powers.

If it’s a job for anybody it’s the UN but quite which countries would be prepared to affectively lend their armed forces to the UN …who knows.

Viviennemary · 28/08/2024 09:21

Exactly what is anyone supposed to do about it. The change needs to come from within.

Grumpy12345 · 28/08/2024 09:20

It’s horrific and extremely sad. But ultimately it’s not reported much because ‘society’ (in other words men) does not think oppression of women is as bad as oppression of other groups such as oppression based on race, ethnic group or religion.

In the 80s loads of people boycotted South African goods etc at protest on South African not allowing black people to vote. My own mum always used to check the labels on fruit in the supermarket and if it came from South Africa she didn’t buy it. However Saudi Arabia only recently gave women the vote and no-one boycotted Saudi Arabia.

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 09:19

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:03

There isn't a public outcry because there is very little we can do.

The U.K. has invaded Afghanistan I think three or four times in the last 200 years.

The soviets, the Americans and us have all tried to drag them out of their backward tribal culture which oppresses women.

Ultimately the men in Afghanistan are prepared to fight for their country and their right to do what they want in it which includes treating women terribly.

All of the invasions were fought and ultimately the Afghans won.

So no, unless you want to suggest that a country invades Afghanistan and puts it's soldiers lives on the line (and lots of them will die) to protect the women of Afghanistan then there is nothing to be done.

Surely there's a big difference between a public outcry and outright war?

We could publicly condemn the Taliban, publicly call out Trump and Boris Johnson (and others too of course) for allowing the Taliban to regain control, we could try to further enshrine the rights of women into our laws and societies.

I don't know, I guess I just want some public acknowledgment that it is a truly f-ed situation and that the women of Afghanistan (and other countries as well) deserve so much more.

OP posts:
Ridiculousradish · 28/08/2024 09:17

Absolutely horrendous. I don't understand why this isn't top of the news. Reminiscent of A Handmaid's Tale.

PolitePearlMoose · 28/08/2024 09:14

This reply has been deleted

This is the work of a previously banned poster.

wonderstuff · 28/08/2024 09:14

It’s only women isn’t it, not like in other countries where actual people are being oppressed.

I can’t forgive the Biden administration for leaving the region and effectively arming the Taliban to the teeth. Shameful. Makes my heart hurt when I think of it.