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AIBU?

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To be shocked this isn't getting more coverage?

411 replies

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 08:51

Women in Afghanistan are now forbidden from speaking when not inside their homes. A simple "hello" to someone in a shop is now against the law. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/aug/26/taliban-bar-on-afghan-women-speaking-in-public-un-afghanistan

AIBU to think this is some of the most horrific news I've heard in months? I can't wrap my head around it and I can't help thinking - activists/newspapers/politicians are loud when campaigning about the gender pay gap or the state of child care or a woman's rights to her own body but somehow on this topic no one wants to criticise too often or too loudly.

Is it because religion is mixed in? Or guilt over the war? Or do politicians in particular only care about women's rights when it's a vote-winner in their constituency? Or is it just that it's so terrible and we all feel so powerless to prevent it that we just prefer to ignore the situation?

I'm feeling v v shaken.

OP posts:
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Thurien · 28/08/2024 11:28

wonderstuff · 28/08/2024 10:51

They moved millions of pounds worth of weapons into the country and then walked away effectively arming the Taliban to the teeth. They had effective control of the cities, casualties were low, they could have stayed until a democratic government could be fully established.

They left because a democratic government could not be established.

Regardless of whether the Taliban have a single AK47 or enough equipment to arm ten battle groups, the way women are treated in Afghanistan is squarely down to religious practices.

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 11:25

Busybeemumm · 28/08/2024 11:17

It is racist to stoke violence and make suggestions that Muslims will overtake the UK by 2050 as @Blondiebeachbabe did. It's doesn't have to be one or the other does it? Afghan clearly has major issues in how it treats it's women and girls- as do other countries! This fact doesn't detract from Afghanistan in anyway.

Ok, but is it racist to be concerned that the Taliban ideology (that they claim is the one true interpretation of Islam) and others like it might spread?

Even in small ways. I'm a teacher and often see things e.g. some Muslim parents refusing to send their girls on school trips but happy to send their boys. Is it racism if I say that that is anti women and I don't want those views to spread?

Of course, it is perfectly possible to be Muslim and support women's rights. Just like it is possible to be Christian and support women's choice re abortion. Unfortunately, the ideology where religion and women's rights are mutually exclusive seems to be spreading.

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BustyCrustacean · 28/08/2024 11:24

I have an Iranian friend who left Iran over 20 years ago due to the regime

She's blindsinded by the apathy in this country towards Islamist regimes worldwide- (at least among the media/chattering classes)- I'm ashamed, frankly

angeldelite · 28/08/2024 11:23

Blondiebeachbabe · 28/08/2024 09:53

Until 1972, women in this region dressed exactly like we do today. Can you imagine the horror, of being there at the time that these new laws came in?

It is predicted, that the UK could be majority Muslim, by 2050.

Let that sink in.

Except silencing women has no basis in Islam.

LightDrizzle · 28/08/2024 11:23

PaminaMozart · 28/08/2024 09:10

Please consider helping Afghan women and girls by donating:

https://lindanorgrovefoundation.org/

Thank you for this. I’ve set up a Direct Debit after reading through their site. They are doing such important and practical work. What a brilliant organisation.

angeldelite · 28/08/2024 11:19

Octavia64 · 28/08/2024 09:03

There isn't a public outcry because there is very little we can do.

The U.K. has invaded Afghanistan I think three or four times in the last 200 years.

The soviets, the Americans and us have all tried to drag them out of their backward tribal culture which oppresses women.

Ultimately the men in Afghanistan are prepared to fight for their country and their right to do what they want in it which includes treating women terribly.

All of the invasions were fought and ultimately the Afghans won.

So no, unless you want to suggest that a country invades Afghanistan and puts it's soldiers lives on the line (and lots of them will die) to protect the women of Afghanistan then there is nothing to be done.

Oh please, neither the Brits, Soviets or Americans gave a shit about Afghanistan or Afghans.

It’s heart breaking what’s happening there but let’s not try and rewrite history to portray the West as liberators.

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/08/2024 11:19

RAWA was the leading women's rights group in Afganistan prion to the US/UK invasion. As well as international campaigns, they ran underground schools for girls. I'm not sure if they're still going, but if they are, they're worth donating to.

MorrisZapp · 28/08/2024 11:19

Times Radio currently covering it.

kublacant · 28/08/2024 11:19

Does anyone know if a protest is planned outside the Afghan Embassy in London?

my idea is that women all over the world stand outside the Afghan embassies and sing - raise their voices in a way that the Afghan women can’t .

Busybeemumm · 28/08/2024 11:17

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 10:47

I'm honestly curious - do you think (so-called) Christian beliefs pose the same level and scope of danger to women worldwide as (so-called) Islamic beliefs?

I'm saying "so-called" because imo extremists are co-opting religion and twisting it into something it's not.

Edited to add: this is part of what I find so frustrating. If I say I find the treatment of women in Afghanistan (and Saudi Arabia etc) horrific then someone somehow claims it's racist to criticise only Muslim countries and the Christian ones also have problems. Yeah sure, but afaik Afghanistan is the only country where women are forbidden from speaking in public. Sticking up for women's rights is not racist

Edited

It is racist to stoke violence and make suggestions that Muslims will overtake the UK by 2050 as @Blondiebeachbabe did. It's doesn't have to be one or the other does it? Afghan clearly has major issues in how it treats it's women and girls- as do other countries! This fact doesn't detract from Afghanistan in anyway.

Gedoverit · 28/08/2024 11:14

Ivehearditbothways · 28/08/2024 10:31

What are you taking about? Afghan women were allowed to go to university, they walked around wearing mini skirts. In the 60s and 70s, they were gaining ground with women’s rights.
There was still tribal society and all the issues with difference in culture and marriage and everything but it was nothing like it it now.

The taliban didn’t exist before 1994. And they only exist because of the west, because of our invading in and war. The level of extremism from them happened because of the west. We left Afghanistan in a worse state than we found it.

Bollocks

Busybeemumm · 28/08/2024 11:12

@Zebedee999
Do you know anything about how women in traditional Jewish households are treated? All behind their religion eg no touching anyone during periods, sleeping on the floor, having to wear wigs etc.
@Blondiebeachbabe it is racist to imply the Muslim invasion is coming to the UK by 2050, by implication that their laws will come with them hence stoking the kind of ignorant racists mobs we have been on the streets of the UK in recent times.
@AInightingale I didn't state anything about Islam and race as I was stating that Blondies comments are racist and alarmist in reference to her thinking that UK will be overtaken by Muslims by 2050 not proven by any facts.

MsNeis · 28/08/2024 11:10

BettyBardMacDonald · 28/08/2024 11:06

Agree, but wasn't it trump who initiated that?

It was Obama, "akshually".

BustyCrustacean · 28/08/2024 11:09

it doesn't fit the massive bias in the media
they're a bunch of cowards

MsNeis · 28/08/2024 11:09

I feel the same way, OP. In fact, I've always felt the same way about Afghanistan: it's as if we allowed for a Hell on Earth, where we concentrate all the unthinkable evil to women. I think the same of other super rich and famous arab countries that have legal slavery but are very cool for soccer players and the likes of them VIP people...
Hell on Earth 💔

DoloresHargreeves · 28/08/2024 11:07

To be fair, the miniskirt pictures are of brave women who were bucking convention. It wasn't standard. Still, heartbreaking to see how quickly these women have had their lives destroyed.

I wish there was something that we can do. I'll donate what I can, but it doesn't feel like anything close to enough.

BettyBardMacDonald · 28/08/2024 11:06

wonderstuff · 28/08/2024 09:14

It’s only women isn’t it, not like in other countries where actual people are being oppressed.

I can’t forgive the Biden administration for leaving the region and effectively arming the Taliban to the teeth. Shameful. Makes my heart hurt when I think of it.

Agree, but wasn't it trump who initiated that?

DoloresHargreeves · 28/08/2024 11:06

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 11:01

Yes, I find it interesting how the reason given for women's oppression is basically "we men can't control ourselves". Truly bizarre.

It's not accidental. They are sending the message to women that women should exist purely as they relate to men. They are letting the women know that they are being locked up and erased from society, that human rights no longer apply to them, for no other reason than their existence mildly inconveniencing men. It's a made up excuse calculated to let women know exactly where they stand.

BettyBardMacDonald · 28/08/2024 11:05

Have you seen those pictures online from the 1970s of female uni students in Afghanistan, wearing mini skirts and sandals?

Heartbreaking juxtaposed with ones from this year of women fully garbed in black.

Sugarcoldturkey · 28/08/2024 11:01

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 28/08/2024 10:59

Quote: "The Taliban published a host of new “vice and virtue” laws last week, approved by their supreme leader Hibatullah Akhundzada, which state that women must completely veil their bodies – including their faces – in thick clothing at all times in public to avoid leading men into temptation and vice."

Bloody hell, wouldn't it be easier to just make men wear blindfolds?

Yes, I find it interesting how the reason given for women's oppression is basically "we men can't control ourselves". Truly bizarre.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 28/08/2024 11:01

Floralnomad · 28/08/2024 10:31

Well they’ve just covered it on the BBC news . I despair , and if I was the family of anybody killed in the last Afghan war I would be pulling my hair out , what a waste of life for nothing . They should be shunned and isolated in the same way as South Africa were during the apartheid years so for a start stop playing cricket with them .

One of the main issues were that voters in the US no longer wanted to see anyone in their family killed in Afghanistan and didn't want to stay indefinitely

Pressure to end that kind of involvement will be heard domestically

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 28/08/2024 10:59

Quote: "The Taliban published a host of new “vice and virtue” laws last week, approved by their supreme leader Hibatullah Akhundzada, which state that women must completely veil their bodies – including their faces – in thick clothing at all times in public to avoid leading men into temptation and vice."

Bloody hell, wouldn't it be easier to just make men wear blindfolds?

DodoTired · 28/08/2024 10:57

Fluffyelephant · 28/08/2024 10:48

The Soviets certainly didn't 'try and drag Afghanistan out of 'their backward tribal culture'. That's ridiculous. Afghanistan was quite a progressive country until the Soviet invasion and then the Taliban managed to take over. If you google 'Afghanistan 1970s' you'll see photos of women in mini-skirts going to University.

It was shameful how the UK left Afghanistan, especially after encouraging so many to take on jobs and responsibilities which could put their lives at risk if the Taliban returned to power.

You are wrong.
Soviet Union had influence in Afghanistan since 1919 and provided it with military and economic assistance all this time so progressive attitudes were there during Soviet Union influence.

To counter Soviet Union, the US has started sponsoring mujahideen (Islamic extremists) to bait USSR to invade to fight them. Which they did (to disastrous consequences). Mujahideen then morphed into Taliban. The USA also sponsored Taliban proper. So it was the fault of the Western governments.

UmbrellaEllaEllaElla · 28/08/2024 10:54

Fancycheese · 28/08/2024 10:43

Oh please! Enough of the faux ignorance. You know exactly what that statement is alarmist and racist.

Fundamentalist Christianity and the LDS church are actively harming women in the United States and no one seems to be alarmed by white Christians.

White Christians are benign compared to Islam. Christianity is also a religion not a race. There are Christians of all races all over the world.

wonderstuff · 28/08/2024 10:51

Thurien · 28/08/2024 10:44

Trump and Biden played a massive part in this. It was their stupid agreement (Promise you won’t let the Taliban back in control!)

The only massive part is that played by the Taliban when it comes to the treatment of women in Afghanistan. Iran has issues with women's rights also, as do several other middle eastern states of course.

They moved millions of pounds worth of weapons into the country and then walked away effectively arming the Taliban to the teeth. They had effective control of the cities, casualties were low, they could have stayed until a democratic government could be fully established.