To think warehouse workers and shop assistants have very different jobs?

Having done both warehouse & shop floor (and been paid the same for both, incidentally, via an agency) I'd take the warehouse over the shop floor!

When I was young I worked for employers where there was blatant pay discrimination. It used to be very common. It should have ended a long time ago.

I had a similar experience when I worked in a leisure centre. The role of leisure attendant (which primarily attracted males), was paid at a much higher rate than the role of Creche assistant, (which mostly attracted females.) Yes the leisure attendant role was slightly more physical, but Creche assistants were left in charge of infants and toddlers, and had to follow OFSTED guidelines, and plan and record daily activities, nappy changing/toileting etc. More importantly Creche assistants were required to have a relevant level 3 qualification, while leisure attendants were unqualified. 🙄

No there should not. Employers should follow the law if they want to avoid these cases.

A lot of the issues around Xmas and bank holiday working will apply to the retail staff too.

@MrsMoastyToasty They can pay extra for shift work. It’s the basic hourly rate that’s the issue. Plus Next don’t do food. All staff in supermarkets can do shifts and work long hours.

tizer yes there is a limit to back pay - 6 years! Up to the date the claim was launched in the tribunal - so if it was launched 4 years ago, it’s 10 years! Insolvency time.

I’ve worked in next retail customer service and I’ve also worked in M&S and other warehouses . I’ll tell you which one I preferred and found easier and it wasn’t the customer service work!

But if warehouses need to pay more to be more competitive it’s a bit tricky.

DH works in a food warehouse for one of the major retailers.
Hours - he has shifts that start as early as 4am. In the run up to Christmas his hours ramp up to 12 hour days from 8 hour days.the first week in December he does a 5 day week, the second week he does a 6 day week and the final week before Christmas he does 7 days straight. He is not allowed to book any annual leave for December. If he's on night shift he actually leaves for work at 6pm on Christmas Day so that the warehouse is operating through the night so food is in store by opening time on Boxing Day.
Bank Holidays are normal working days. (He has to claim back for worked bank holidays).
He has to ensure lorries are loaded safely and securely, that frozen food is kept within temperature parameters; that fork lift and lorry drivers are working to regulations; that staff aren't stealing. The list is endless...

There is a limit on back pay I think in terms of years. However Next hasn’t dealt with this. It is not new legislation! Yes, look at Birmingham. Lots of companies are embroiled in this. Supermarkets - and it’s been dragging on for 10 years! Clearly that’s not acceptable. The legislation was pretty clear but they have relied on the market forces argument. However it’s difficult to justify that as a pay policy as it’s probably illegal.

My dh works in a warehouse now after working in a public facing role. He prefers the warehouse as don’t have to deal with public.
They are always short on staff though and get a lot come and go.

pay doesn’t always reflect which job is more difficult, skilled etc it can be simply what a company need to pay to get someone to do the job. If next were offering £x an hour for both warehouse and shop maybe they got loads of applications for shop but hardly any for warehouse for whatever reason. They need people to work in warehouse still so they have to raise the hourly rate to attract people to the job. The reverse could happen if you got loads of applications for a warehouse and none for shop.

if they already have enough people for the shop at £x an hour it doesn’t seem right to me that they should have to pay more just because they are having to increase the warehouse rate to attract people. Shop people could go and get jobs in the warehouse if they wanted to

Handling customers and money I would say is higher skill than a warehouse operative.

These cases are so dangerous - six+ years of back pay. This will be the death knell for next. Look what’s happened to Birmingham council. There should be a statutory limit on back pay for these claims now that we are no longer in the EU.

@MereDintofPandiculation ir is the equal value bit people find difficult. There are experts on Job Design who look at alm
the tasks and what skills you need. They are then evaluated. So the jobs don’t have to be the same. Next we’re arguing market forces but this doesn’t trump the equal value argument. Unless the next stage says it does.

Birmingham Dinner ladies were paid less than bin “men” and street cleaners. They also won. Their work is of equal value.

YABU. Both entry level jobs that don't need any particular qualifications, I don't see why one should be paid more than the other.

Arguably customer service requires a broader skillset and so should be paid more.

Yes, ACAS:"By law, men and women must get equal pay for doing 'equal work'. This is work that equal pay law classes as the same, similar, equivalent or of equal value."

Historically there were many jobs which were traditionally "men's" or "women's". The initial equal pay legislation covered only "the same job`" if I remember correctly. This did little to narrow the gap between men's and women's pay, and hence the "work of equal value" provision was brought in.

Ps I always find level of difficulty etc so subjective and hate when people talk down jobs as ‘unskilled’ - in retail nearly everything is a skill- dealing with complaints, merchandising, ordering, cashing out etc, in a warehouse there’s so much organisation needed, coordination etc- there is no such thing really as unskilled work (from a lab technician that literally just added a certain amount of solution to vials for two years but needed a degree to do it!!). A job is a job is a job

@ClaudiaWankleman yeah, I agree..
It's like I was an office manager, so I did admin, reception, fixed the appliances/boiler, made food, sometimes had to do cleaning...all same wage because it's to the same end. You don't just do one specific task only. Unless you're on a production line or data entry is your job title.

I think the relative level of difficulty of these types of jobs is mostly subjective. Some people will think it's easier dealing with the public than doing more manual work, some people have the opposite opinion. Both are valid! It isn't like fewer people can do one or the other and it's also not the case that one requires more skills, qualifications or experience.

Agree forklift drivers should earn a higher wage, but there is probably forklift driving at bigger retail stores too (or at least there was at the retail store I worked in as a teen). So it's probably not enough evidence of them being such intrinsically different jobs as to be worth different wages.

I can't imagine Next warehouse is that demanding, it will be mostly done by robots, they can't check anything as I have had some ridiculous errors in the past with orders.

Physically demanding doesn't necessarily mean deserving more pay. When I worked in a shop as well as serving customers and putting out deliveries (which involved a lot of heavy lifting), I had to resolve customer complaints, answer phones, do a lot of admin, especially financial admin, order supplies, manage people, plan events, and come up with creative displays and dress windows, etc. It was the kind of shop where everything had to be beautifully gift-wrapped and the service was quite involved. (It was quite a fancy shop). I wasn't even on the management team. I bet most of these companies wouldn't let a lot of their warehouse workers loose on the customers.

I don't think parking has anything to do with it, it's the job role not how far it is from your house.

Any role which involves dealing with the public should be paid a substantial premium for doing so.

Asda retail staff have already won a similar case some years ago. Putting things on shelves in a shop is of equal value to the company as it is putting them on shelves in a warehouse.

The warehouse is unlikely to be more physically demanding because bulk items will be lifted with fork lifts etc. Plus even if it is, shop staff have extra demands and skills re dealing with the public, handling cash, operating tills etc.