To agree with this article about issues with the NCT and their focus on ‘natural births’

Same. Perhaps they’ve taken on some of the feedback?

I did NCT a few weeks ago and it was great. Really balanced. I felt no judgement from anyone on the course or the course leaders that I had an ELCS booked. We covered all pain relief neutrally and whilst I personally thought an epidural sounds horrible and an almost-certain route to intervention, several couples came away from that same content thinking it sounded great and they’d be asking for one.

The infant feeding covered breast and formula feeding equally. The only thing I would say is it made formula feeding look like a right faff, which objectively it is if you properly follow NHS advice and don’t use prep machines or make up bottles in advance and store them in the fridge (but the course leader did say that people still do this and your appetite for risk will be different with a full-term baby at 3 months old compared to if you were formula feeding a newborn premature baby who has just left the NICU).
Our feeding session was ran by a different course leader who was a breastfeeding counsellor and former midwife. She now lets us WhatsApp and phone her with any questions. I’ve already made use of that by asking her about a second-hand breast pump I’d been offered.

I did go into the course a bit sceptical based on stories I’d heard like in the OP. However, I think things seem like they have changed and I had a great experience. We booked it 50/50 for the info and for the meeting similar people who lived locally aspect.

We bought the Positive Birth Company course as well and I’d imagine that’s far more problematic than NCT. It felt like one big (unprofessionally recorded) toxic positivity session. I had to turn it off. Birth isn’t fairy lights and a romantic experience. Nobody at my NCT mentioned breathing the baby out. Its nature and nature can be brutal at times.

(edited for typos!)

I didn’t really feel that about NCT but to be honest I went to meet people, and took a lot of the advice with a pinch of salt. I had a terrible milk supply and it was the lactation consultants and breastfeeding peer “supporters” who made me feel a failure for “not trying hard enough”

I agree. Though it kuat depend on the individual group leader.

I remember the stories of women who'd been permanently disabled by their epidural, and the explanations of further intervention if we had one. Ans the comments about how easy breastfeeding was as long as the position was right.

But mostly the main message seemed to be that if you could be nice and calm in your head, you'd have a good birth. I still feel like my extra long labours and complicated births with every form of pain relief were due to my inability to calm my own mind.

That was my experience of the c-section role play as well, very much look "how medicalised it will be". I ended up with a very medicalised induction followed by a c-section and the nct role play made the whole thing feel inevitable and really didn't help (another mother in my class had a similar experience). It was over a decade ago now however. Breastfeeding consultant was very much if you use bottles or nipple shields at all you won't be able to carry on breastfeeding which wasn't my experience with either of my children that I did breastfeed.

On the plus side I did like my consultant, it meant I got some antenatal classes (as I couldn't get on nhs ones) and it did help with social side for first year (as I went back to work full time I didn't keep in touch with most bar Facebook but I know some of the others stayed friends).

It's a shame that free/cheaper classes aren't more accessible. Nct aren't cheap and we were fortunate to afford them.

I remember everyone in my NCT group wincing when they handed the epidural needle around, as a nurse I'd done a maternity placement in my training and remembered it well. I said to them all most women want to kiss the anaesthetist afterwards, there's a very good reason for that.

My first child I was induced for PROM I knew the odds were against me, battled it out for a bit then requested an epidural when I knew I couldn't cope with the induction process anymore. As you say that was not 'informed consent' I'd have signed anything at that point. My husband nearly fainted I was gripping him so tightly to try to stay still. I then itched like mad and thought I was having an allergic reaction until husband pointed out that possible side effect was on the consent form - that I had been incapable of understanding.

I remember a pitying look from NCT friend who was still pregnant oh you had to have an epidural (before their not to plan birth involving an ambulance and epidural).

When the NCT heard about our births we weren't invited back to talk to the next group. They chose the one person with the most uncomplicated birth who said it was no more painful than getting your ears pierced.

I also found in interesting that second child would have been a text book NCT birth, fast, gas and air only. They'd have invited me back to talk about that.

I remember the c-section role play as very pointedly trying to put us off it. It was very much, "look how many strangers would be in the room if you have a c-section." I really resented the values-driven, fear-laden position around c-sections (as though reducing them would be a good thing), while minimising the very real risks of vaginal birth (e.g. urinary and faecal incontinence).

5 and a half years ago and we only went because our friends had specifically recommended the class teacher: we wouldn't have gone otherwise. It was really helpful, especially for my partner who didn't have many of the basics down about dressing/washing/holding etc., and was clear and fairly scientific. We didn't have a role play but we did have a session with pictures of the different bits of the hospital, etc.,

The breastfeeding lady was terrible though: if you got your partner to do one feed in the night ever, your boobs would remember and the next time your baby wouldn't be able to eat. I think a third of the group complained.

Most of us went on the do baby massage with the tutor, which was fab

Exactly this for me too! 20 years ago.
All throught the class on c-sections I remember think 'ah but this won't be me'....Obviously it was! I was v grateful for what we'd learned.
The focus on breastfeeding in hindsight wasn't great as I felt like it was my only option. It took my mum dragging me to Mothercare for bottles and formula to change our lives with our DD.

Exactly this. 5 years ago for my firstborn and the NCT was great and covered all birth types. There was someone having twins in my group who knew they were having a c-section and there was no judgement whatsoever. I ended up with an emergency section and was very grateful for the run through we did in the NCT antenatal classes as I wasn’t worried by the number of people in the room.

My experience is entirely different. Groups in this, as in all thibgs, varies.

Yep I mean I'd stay at home as long as possible too, but I'd never deliver at home (well I'd probably adopt anyway) .... that and I was a prem jaundice PET baby and my brother was a PET cat1 prolonged cpr at birth ... so I don't have the best of family history 😂

It's v variable between areas, obviously the more liberal classes only result in people saying "pls can I have an epidural" and me doing it... but there's a heck of a lot of women that I've had crying their eyes out totally inconsolable, no chance of getting to fully in their current state as minimally dilated in agony, where me and the midwife have spent a good 45mins saying no you won't get paralysed, no you haven't failed to want pain relief, no you aren't guaranteed to have a csection and never be able to breast feed etc efc

NCT are a nightmare, I say that as a professional btw.
They cause so many issues with women feeling a failure then the groups lead to competitive parenting.
I often have to deal with the fall out with a mother in tears over some issue stemming from an NCT group chat.

If you find a friendly supportive group fabulous but please don't then go and play mean girl games.

Most midwives I know plan homebirths. Of course not all, and it also depends on their risk factors.

I completely agree with you in regards to our own professional experiences shaping our own personal choices. I am a midwife and would stay away from LW for as long as I possibly could (if ever) as a labouring woman, but again that would depend on my risk factors and how my labour was progressing.

It is scary how much damage incorrect information can be, be that from NCT/similar, another professional, social media etc etc.

Personally I felt very safe in Liverpool Womens, surrounded by intervention if needed. The thought of attempting birth in my home was appalling, quite frankly. My brother was born at home and my Dad begged me not to consider it- not what my parents had planned but in 1970 home birth was routine for second birth after safe first delivery. Only this second birth turned out not to be safe and my mum had a very hard time.

The simple fact is that in earlier generations death in childbirth was common. It is very dangerous to forget that, and to preach that a water birth with candles and music will be great. It will be for some- but for others it will be very ill-advised, and until you go into labour you can’t be certain which group you’ll be in.

I hope that NCT classes have improved significantly since the ones I heard about in the late 90s, but if they are still pushing a ‘resist medical intervention’ line then I would avoid them like the plague.

I attended NCT classes in 2018. Although the focus was on natural birth, medical interventions such as c-section were discussed. There was no demonisation of it at all.

Good thing really as 5 out of the 8 of us had c-sections! Two planned and three emergency.

After I had my emergency caesarean, I was asked to talk to a group of expectant mums to tell them of my experience, and allay any fears they might have. No one was giving any indication that anything other than a totally natural drug free birth was a failure.

Yes, it’s not cheap. I mentioned this briefly in my post but I think as a result the current middle class bugbears of the day are probably over-represented as a result.

Interesting, I was very interested in doing NCT but in the end the cost and the fact we were still in many COVID restrictions when I was pregnant meant i never did. My gut feeling is that it is group dependent as I know someone who had a good experience with them and still speaks highly of them 8 years post last child.

I however would have been laughed out of town had I been In the 'wrong' group - I have never been so high on life as I was ion all that has and air I supped, I desperately wanted an epidural but there wasn't time in the end, I had a vantouse and epesiotomy assisted delivery too!
Plus I NEVER wanted to breast feed and the only criticism I had of the hospital I had my baby was they literally grabbed my boob post birth and put baby on to latch! But I very quickly switched to bottles and completely happy with my decision as it was right for me.

Based on my experience of NCT this year, I whole heartedly can say this wasn’t my experience at all. We went into a lot of depth which c sections, including doing role play for it (which I’m very grateful of, having had an emergency one) as well as a lot around formula feeding during the feeding session. In the end 5 of the 8 couples ended up having a c section- 3 of which were elective, so we did discuss it a lot and I certainly didn’t feel there was any judgement at all- our leader was lovely. I’d always recommend it to people because of the support you get from the group afterwards. I’m so sorry this wasn’t your experience with the organisation.

I stayed well away from NCT 25 years ago after hearing what had been said at groups that friends attended. They were pretty critical about some of the advice - one tutor raised doubts about whether going for the 20 week scan was helpful. I would have been one of their ‘failures’ according to what I heard, being induced with DS1 and cs with DS2 and not bf.

I think some tutors have indeed done a lot of damage- just as the breast is best campaign has.

In 2009 nct had already renamed itself (national not natural) and was giving informed and helpful info

It was renamed from natural to national in 1961.

Was more meant to imply they're incredibly safe and the risks are tiny...

just from lw I don't think most midwives would have home births tbh

same way never ever heard of a home birth in an anaesthetists birth plan (only one that occurred v much accidentally!) - unfortunately because we only ever get involved with emergencies, not the lovely pleasant nil intervention births, our views are somewhat skewed by what can go wrong and the speed at which it can go wrong, none of which is fixable by a pair of midwives in your lounge... plus hospitals are our homeland so don't evoke the same stress response they do in most of the general public

I know 2 colleagues who've done nct in the last year, didn't declare their job role for the first 2 sessions then had to and completely correct the total misinformation/scare stories that were being spouted out

You also pay (substantially I believe) for the NCT. It’s not free.

I skipped this and opted for a private group that you paid for. With that came welcoming of anyone's experience and choice , nautral/csec, bottle or breast , it didn't matter. The support was there for whatever choices you made. And the women(some are still friends today) all were so welcoming.

I've only heard bad experiences so decided to avoid.