To agree with this article about issues with the NCT and their focus on ‘natural births’

@Destiny123 My husband still reminds me that I asked him.whether it was too late to put the baby in about 20 hours into labour 😅

Definitely the best way to be. Go into labour wanting a haply healthy mum and baby as your outcome and you'll have much better experience than those with rigid plans that don't always work out

Still makes me chuckle the midwife phonecall I got "please can you talk to my lady as she's in labour and she doesn't want to give birth and doesn't want a csection"... like I'm happy to chat pain relief or csections or anything she wishes but we are 9 months too late to not want either option

@Ariela Totally agree on the plan vs preferences! I refused to write a proper plan, ans had this chat with my midwife (who was awesome). She said that so many people that she spoke to were set on having certain things, and didn't allow for any flexibility (she also cursed NCT for giving people unrealistic expectations) and looked like she was about to burst with joy that I was refusing to write a plan that likely wouldn't happen.

As it was, it was a good move. I wouldn't have chosen the birth I had, but it was still a positive experience because I was in control and had knowledge to make informed decisions when needed (as did my husband when I was unable to).

10 years ago someone in my NCT group asked about bottle feeding. They were told they needed to find out about that on their own. 😳. It was only when i reflected later that i realised how bad this was….

It's called NCT for a reason! They've not changed since I had my children 40+ years ago. I stood out in my class for stating I was having an epidural, to shocked gasps all around lol.

Not NCT admittedly, but in 2005 when I was pregnant with my first, I went to classes at my local GP surgery run by a local midwife. We were basically told that we should try for a natural birth with minimal pain relief, that most medical interventions were to be avoided at all costs and she kept advocating for home births. I felt very much that if I didn't achieve all these in my birth then I would have 'done something wrong'. My birth was induced (after 15 days past due date), and ended in an emergency c-section. He had ABO incompatibility, struggled to breast feed and ended up formula feeding so I felt like an utter failure. The same midwife came to my home a week or two after discharge with a student midwife and when I asked which formula milk would be best for him she kept saying 'breast milk is the best' and wouldn't answer. It was only when she went to her car to get something that her student kindly explained about how most formula milks were very similar and that I was doing ok. I'll never forget her supportive words, but the fact that she felt she could only say these things when the midwife was out of the room spoke volumes about how biased maternity services were towards the 'only natural births' and 'breast is best' nonsense.
For what it's worth, my third child (like my 1st and 2nd) was delivered via c-section, and I beat fed her until she was 3yrs. Her health and development is no better or worse that her siblings.

My only experience of NCT was a postnatal coffee group and that was quite scarring as I couldn't breast feed fully due to a lack of milk. I was judged for using a bottle by some of the mums and for having to go back to work after months (self employed). There were a couple of "I couldn't leave my precious child" types who made it really miserable.

I've never used NCT so am well aware that my perceptions are based on hearsay rather than fact but it always just feels a bit middle class naval gazing to me. Like you pay hundreds of pounds to meet other people who have also paid hundreds of pounds to have someone talk you through labour and do role plays? I gave birth so early with my first I only did one NHS class and I didn't find it that useful hearing about giving birth so I can't imagine what I would have got out of 8 hours worth of classes 🤣
There's a lot of judgment in having babies - whether to have a section/pain relief/breastfeeding and I'm not sure paid for classes really do a lot to help this as it implies that there's a "right" way to do things rather than acknowledging that a lot of it is out of our hands.

I really enjoyed my experience with NCT. But I was already the type to be wanting to breast feed, try to keep mobile in labour, etc etc. I think it is aimed at a ‘type’ and not for everyone. Although that said, I remember all being a bit horrified by their breastfeeding coach woman who was still feeding her 4yr old, little did I know that would be me…

My friend attended NCT who always was going to have an elective C section and she said she didn’t feel judged at all, and found it useful even though she wouldn’t be planning a vaginal birth

We’ve just finished NCT and it wasn’t pushy about anything. They covered all options and choices in a very neutral way including induction, pain relief and c section, teaching pros and cons of each. Focus was very much on being informed, researching in advance and understanding the possible consequences of an intervention. The session on breastfeeding was optional so if you didn’t want to BF, you could just not go. And again it wasn’t pushy, it was more focused on the reality and how to get support if you needed.

I still bear a little bit of a grudge towards NCT and their anti epidural stance, at least when I was involved a good few years ago. I had to be induced on a drip and was actually asked if I wanted an epidural. Course I didn't because I was a 'true believer'. What an idiot!!
I was in agony, especially as the drip was going a bit too fast as I was told later.It was, quite simply, one of the most misleading pieces of 'advice' I've ever had.

DS2 arrived 7 weeks early, severe pre-eclampsia, placenta just about packed up, epidural emergency C Section, all v worrying. BUT my memories are of no pain, kind staff and my brain functioning properly. I remember thinking 'is that it?' when they'd finished and wheeled me off.

I did make one very good friend at NCT so that was positive.

Our NCT leader was fine. In addition to variations in what they teach you, there will be variations in what people remember and what people perceived the leader to have said. The lady who did the breastfeeding talk even talked about this, as she would sometimes see the same mothers afterwards for breastfeeding support.

For my first I was told to have an early epidural. For my second I was told there was unlikely to be time due to how short my first labour was, they were right! What I found hard was all the talk of choices and making a plan, when due to my medical conditions I had no choices. This was not due to the NCT though, the booklet given by NHS Scotland was just as bad.

We did NCT over Covid so it was quite a different experience anyway, but I agree that it seems to be quite heavily skewed by the personal beliefs of the course leader.

The midwife had identified that DC1 had heart problems relatively early so we were on regular monitoring and I knew I was going to have a medically managed birth. When I said this in the class, the instant response was "well you know your body, they should listen to you."

Fortunately I just found it absurd, and said I was going to trust the experts, but I did find it odd that they were trying to pit us against the doctors and midwives. As others have said, the women I know who HAVE had issues with their births, the problems have been about lack of staff and intervention, rather than too much intervention.

I think there are a few fundamental flaws in general (not NCT) with births in this country:
The main ones I struggled with were
'Why have you not written a birth PLAN'
My answer was 'I am NOT writing a 'PLAN' as that is only setting up for failure if things do NOT go to plan'. I kept having to repeat myself to every single person that came in that ' We'll go with the flow. The only thing I have written down was I would prefer oral Vit K to be given rather than an injection. '
IMO it should be BIRTH PREFERENCES, not Plan. That way nobody has failed IYSWIM. Done out like a tree with boxes to write things. That way you can voice that if possible you'd prefer x. Then if Y has to happen you'd prefer z over p. Etc

Second thing is while breast feeding is considered best for baby, there are masses for whom it simply isn't possible, so ANY feeding is good. However there is very very little help available, breast or bottle. I'm quite sure if there was investment made even if voluntary then a) breastfeeding rates would improve and b) less babies would be admitted for gastro problems caused by incorrect feeding whether that's incorrectly sterilised or incorrectly made up feeds.

The fact your experience varies so much depending on your leader is what’s wrong with NCT. They should be guided by official RCOG and RCM advice primarily. Drawing from personal experience is fine as long as it’s presented as such. Our leader was pretty useless as a teacher (agreed by all participants regardless of choices!) with far too much ‘woo’. The BF mentor seemed great for promoting positivity but this did not help the 50% of us who had a tongue tied baby and the horrendous struggles that brought, both physically and emotionally. Thank god for my wonderful free local BF (non-NCT) drop in. They were fabulous and I have donated to them as a charity.

I think it massively depends on your course leader, though of course you don't know who you're going to get.

Ours was fine (six years ago). Definitely leaned towards preferring natural, but prepared for c section and epidural etc too. Possibly because I knew I was having a c section and one other woman suspected she would need to, so the leader really had to give us the info. As it happened we ended up with half the group having c sections.

What wasn't so good was the breastfeeding course, which was run by someone else and was militant about breast is best. I actually remember her saying formula poisons the baby's gut 🙄At the time I just rolled my eyes and ignored it as I was fully intending to breastfeed but knew formula was fine as an alternative, BUT I was unable to breastfeed and it was only then I realised I knew nothing about bottle feeding. They hadn't given us any information at all about how to prepare formula or use it safely. And of course I could look it up, but we ended up switching to formula after 48 hours in hospital and no sleep, a week post-partum. Not the best time to learn new things.

NCT was totally worth the money for me for the friendships and support of the group in that first year. I'm still close friends with one of the girls now and see a few of the others semi-regularly.

I found NCT to be useful in lots of ways before my first baby but this certainly chimes with my experience. I was booked in for a C-section because my baby was breech and once I told the course leader this in a class she literally turned away from me and went to talk to someone else. As if I had demonstrated I wasn't worth her time.

I found it quite funny actually - since I was confident I was doing the right thing and couldn't help that my baby was breech - but I'd have appreciated a supportive word or two, and some sort of validation that it would still be a nice birth. Which it was! There were loads of people in the room, yes, but they were all cheerful and welcoming and made it feel special. I'd have loved to have known that beforehand.

My NCT experience was truly excellent and supportive. The focus was more on consent, decision making and self advocation rather than the "perfect birth".

i had a birth full of interventions, but felt in control as i had the tools to discuss different options with medical staff.

Same here. And that was in the 90s!

I did not attend NCT so can't comment on that course in particular. I did, however, attend a similar course that was extremely focused on natural birth and hypnobirthing and I found it bizarre. I do not get the focus on birthing without pain relief. I remember thinking if I get a migraine, I take a paracetamol. Sure, I guess I could breathe and chant through the migraine but why would I? Pain is not pleasant and I don't want to experience it. My plan was always so get as much pain relief as I felt I needed. I found pethadine in my case to be effective but I definitely would not have viewed myself as a failure if I needed an epidural.

I know this will make me extremely unpopular amongst some on mumsnet but I had no interest in breastfeeding. I did breastfeed straight after birth and continued to combi feed for the first couple of days after birth to give my baby a good dose of colostrum. But I switched to exclusive bottle feeding on day three and never regretted that decision. I found the newborn days to be enjoyable to my surprise.

There is far to much pressure on new mums to be perfect 'natural' mothers who have natural births. This is exasperated by social media and youtube.

This wasn’t my experience either. The set up of the operating room was so, so useful. I had the NCT breastfeeding support person come and it was her who suggested mixed feeding.
we had a mix of natural and c/s in our group and we were all welcomed to the meeting where you meet the next group coming through. This was 15 years ago too.
I’m sorry not everyone had this experience, sounds like it is very dependent on the group leader.

This is why l refused to have anything to do with them. I never joined a group or bought into their cult.

I had a medically managed birth and a C section. Was perfectly happy with both. Why would anyone want to be with someone who looked down on them?

I’d have given them a piece of my mind if they’d tried their shit with me. I’m 60 now and still think the same. It’s hard enough having babies and children without being condemned for the way you bring them onto the world.

It is entirely based on your leader I think. I wrote to ours before, explained I suffered from tokophobia, would be having an ELCS and would not breast feed. She was lovely and welcoming, DH and I were not made to feel "weird" and we were very much included (apart from the breast feeding woman who refused to teach us about pumping or bottle feeding and was frankly did not hide her utter hatred of me, and I think started my friend on the start of her very difficult breast feeding journey. The group leader was apologetic to me.afterwards. I got a lobely group of friends out of it, tips and tricks about dealing with pregnancy, the post-partum period and even up to nurseries. Weirdly, I did remember enough from the breast feeding session to be able to successfully feed my second child, although I was entirely put off having ANY external help with that (fortunately we found it easy, but had we struggled, there is no way I would have sought help after meeting the vile woman and would have moved straight to bottles as I cannot be doing with undisguised judgment and pressure).

Agree.

Distinctly remember a discussion around ‘Can you call it ‘giving birth’ if you have a C-section or intervention as the woman hadn’t actually done it herself’ 😬

I hated giving birth (actually delivered without intervention but it was horrendous and complicated), and was left physically damaged and clinically traumatised. I think the NCT mindset contributed to my complete sense of failure as a woman and a mother