Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

The anti men movement isnt helping anyone

Why are you so reluctant to attribute the "anti men movement" to male behaviour?

Unpopular opinion but OP is right, it's the gender wars (as in the male v female not the trans -related one) and how social media seems to incentivise conflict with its algorithms... hence why you get "all men are x" and "all women are z".

You are completely projecting from the comfortable bubble of your positive experiences of “wonderful men”. There’s a flip side to your experiences, and that’s the bubble of the women who have only ever had negative experiences of men.

Believe it or not, not all women and girls have known good examples of men and that includes family members.

I don’t think it makes them men haters to vocalise their experiences. Very very tired maybe.

By all accounts you sound like one of the lucky ones, that’s all.

Perhaps we should be asking why there are so many misogynistic men around with daughters. Why do they hate women so much when they have daughters 🤷🏽‍♀️

Stop being disingenuous.

You weren’t curious. And you didn’t actually address anyone that said they did. Despite it being pointed out how callous that came across, you weren’t bothered.

And what difference does it make if some of us know women who have been murdered by their partner. It happens. Multiple times a week. What does someone knowing someone it happened to actually make to the thread. Or what does it change about your opinion.

You are excepting compassion because you have cancer, I don’t know anyone who has cancer but I can still have compassion for people who do. You want compassion for your circumstances but showed non.

You haven’t addressed anyone who has, politely, argued against any of your points. Because you are being disingenuous.

The question was then answered. I wasn't asking it to make a point or be nasty. I was genuinely curious.

I don't believe you. I think you're back pedalling now you realise just how revolting your post was.

As a refresher, the poster quoted the number of women murdered each year by partners or ex partners and you said
"Do you personally know any woman who has been killed by their partner?"

Which drips of skepticism at the very least, and in my opinion disbelief and dismissal. No, you weren't "just curious" - you made no follow up to that and you didn't ask anyone else to dredge up the rape and domestic violence victims we know.

You also clarify you are asking "the mums of sons who seem to hate men, why are your sons exempt from that, just because they're an extension of you."

Many of us have replied that our sons are exempt from it because we've worked very hard to make sure they know about male privilige, male violence, toxic masculinity, and that they reject that in favour of being well rounded and civilised human beings.

We've also told you our sons are more than aware how revolting many men's treatment of women is, that they see it in school, in work and out socialising. That they challenge it when they hear it because they were raised by women determined not to add to the problem by "letting boys be boys."

Your original premise has been answered often on this thread. You ignore replies because it doesn't suit your narrative of "Mumsnet women are nasty man-hating harridans."

We raise our sons like we raise our daughters - to be decent, strong, respectful and thoughtful individuals.

Half the time?

Half the time women wouldn’t like their other parent to take responsibility, give them regular breaks? Take half the mental load?

You are having a laugh. The only time I have known women not want fathers involved is when the father is actively making life harder for them. Not sticking the agreement for care of the children, cancelling having the children last minute because of work, trying to stop them going on holiday or letting a friend babysit or consistently upsetting the DC or not caring for them properly.

I am sure you may find the odd woman who doesn’t want the father around just because. But it’s not half. It’s nowhere near.

That generally accepted culture is broadly anti men.

I agree with your general point about prevailing culture. I do not agree that that culture is ‘anti-men’. It’s a culture of holding men to account in a way that doesn’t happen in our wider, patriarchal society.

As they say, when you’re used to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

@Daniagainagainagainagain you dragged your own medical history (and all the rest of it) onto this thread. No one else had anything to do with your massive information dump AND EXCESSIVE USE OF BLOCK CAPITALS so I don't know why you're blaming other posters for your oversharing.

It's not relevant to the topic and has no bearing on the conversation. However, I am sorry you're going through serious health difficulties.

According to recently revised Mumsnet rules, no one can change their user name during a thread. The original name used on the thread ought to be the only one possible - it's in Site Stuff if you want to look it up. According to Mumsnet's own rules, there's no way you ought to be able to post on one thread under three different user names.

As that's the case, it's perfectly reasonable for people to have treated your name change with scepticism.

You started a contentious topic and have been aggressive, insulting and used revolting sexualised language when challenged.

You were also disgustingly dismissive about women murdered by their partners and flippantly asked "do you know any personally". And failed to apologise to those of us who said yes, we did.

I think it's a bit rich for you to kick off about bing challenged when you've responded in such a less than ideal way yourself.

This is the common response to accusations of dual standards. I think I have an explanation

this place has a culture. Things that are broadly “acceptable “. In the example above the man posts, the prevailing culture is “man is wrong” so those posters who feel fantasising is wrong will feel comfortable posting. They’re in line with the culture. Those that think it’s ok won’t generally feel able or comfortable to post.

when it’s the woman, the opposite. Different posters yes, but in the majority it’s those who align with the generally accepted culture who feel most able to post. That generally accepted culture is broadly anti men.

You didn't need to detail any of that though did you? You would completely justified to never want to talk anything other than what you've been through, but it was a complete unnecessary derail and you've been nothing but rude for half the thread. If you don't want personal things discussed, don't bring them up needlessly. Like I said, I'm sorry to hear all that you've been through, but it's irrelevant.
At the very least, constant name changing suggests you don't have the courage of your convictions.
None of my comments have been delete, btw, so which of us is objectively being horrible?

Half the time women don't want a dad in their DC life...it complicates things.

I actually deleted a paragraph about DD's due to not wanting to derail the post from being about boys, but absolutely girls turn out the same...

I’m sorry, what?

It’s the mother’s fault that sons turn out to be violent/abusive/disrespectful? Where’s the dad in all this? And why do daughters not turn out like this too?

What a lot of incoherent nonsense.

I think OPs do get a hard time sometimes. I’ve actually been accused of being ‘the thread police’ on occasion when I’ve tried to stand up for an OP when I feel people are just being contrary for the sake of it.

But, the other side of the coin is that, as an OP, you’ve started the discussion and said, very explicitly in this case, that you’re prepared for opposing views… but you were very unpleasant to someone who disagreed with you on page one.

I also think the stance you took in your OP was very incendiary by its nature; telling women that men are, as a group, unfairly treated by women isn’t quite the same as telling black people to quit finding fault with white people… but it’s not a million miles away. You seemed to have no grasp of the dynamics of the situation you were attempting to analyse.

The name change fail was unfortunate but it undermined people’s confidence in you further. (Still not clear how it can have happened either!)

I, for one, am deeply sorry that you are having these health issues and wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

I still don’t understand where the impulse to defend men (who are still fine btw!) came from.

TBF I haven't RTFT but whenever I read a post about how awful a man is/how badly they've treated a woman lardy lardy lar my first thought is, no matter what we're lead to believe, it's actually the women that give birth to these admittedly tiny at the time, males.

At what stage in their life's do these boys suddenly become awful men.
Yes I'm the mother of a boy, now man in his 30's yet never has he been an awful person, moved out now, family of his own long term relationship, 10 + years he's never been awful to his partner and doesn't shy off when it comes to childcare/housework.
I'd openly say if he and his DP needed to move in I'd be happy to let them...well, for a while anyway..but you get my drift.

I've a sibling, bitter as heck where men are concerned, that has boys and none of them have any respect what so ever for women, 'both ner do wells' probably due to not having any boundaries when younger, but as long as they weren't under her feet or causing trouble to her it was fine...the minute they left school and the police started knocking her she'd make out it wasn't her fault.

One now in his 40's has 7, yes 7 DC with different women, but then again they each knew about the others before continuing to enable him to have more, knew he refused to wear a condom, but non the less went for it anyway.
Some of is DC are of age now where history is repeating itself, sad to see but seeing their GP and father not loosing out to much in life its to be expected.

IMO unless something happened over night in the blink of an eye women have some responsibility in how their sons have turn out, nipping bad behaviour in the bud instead of saying " they're only young" is where it all starts, when they're young....not when they've reached early teens and have spent their younger years doing as they please, no rules, no authority, there's no way you're suddenly going to get them to listen to you, only thing left is for the rest of us to hear the "what do you expect me to do about it" speel.

Parents whether lone parenting or not should be bringing their sons up to be gentleman and their daughters to expect less.

I will edit to say I'd hand on heart be ashamed if my DS had of grown up to be an awful person, but I also think for some they have no shame so it'll always be someone else's fault...
As someone said on MN before people will always know and want their rights but never their see where their responsibilities lay.

It's probably best to stay on topic in future. If you want your entire life story to be considered before anyone responds, don't name change.

OP we only have what you write to go on and we respond to that. You've devoted yourself to telling women to be nicer to men, using misogynistic and aggressive language in the process. I considered it unlikely that a woman who has escaped a domestic abuser, with a sick child, while dealing with cancer, would spend her time this way. I read you as being an angry dishonest bloke. Sorry if I got it wrong.