Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

That's not a vague answer, that's a great honest answer. I do think it's best if you reflect on your subconscious motivations, and I really hope things are looking up for you!

I think OP that is an understandable response to experiencing abuse from men, to want very passionately to believe in the good ones. It's a way to feel safer and keep faith in human nature. And of course, you're absolutely right, it isn't all men. I think its also natural as a survivor to empathise with other survivors, hence your protection of your male friends. I think as others have said though it's about separating the individual cases from group patterns.
I respect that you've been prepared to listen to other perspectives (after the shakey start!) and that you're reflecting. I think we all need to do that all the time however old we are. All the best to you with the things you've got going on in your life.

You say you care about other things, but this is the topic you felt to dedicate days to discussing? I'm genuinely interested in why that is.
You're clearly in a fairly unique position having experienced so much male violence, and having so many falsely accused men in your life, it is baffling to me that men being called out online is your topic of choice.

Exactly, men like him are just as much the problem.

Experts at ‘othering’ the ‘bad men’ they absolutely know these men, they are the colleagues, brothers, mates, fathers, sons of all of us.

I’ve witnessed the self labelled ‘nice guys’ laughing along or just staying silent at other males toxic language/behaviour many many times. That’s why I have respect for very few men.

The shitty men don’t exist in a fkn vacuum they walk amongst us.

Even the met police came out last month and said that the levels of violence against women/girls in England and Wales is a national emergency.

But I suppose they don’t go by statistics and first hand experience and data.

Must all be drama lamas.

Men being domestically abused or falsely accused is far outweighed by women being abused, even organisations like Refuge will tell you that.

I get that you’re being an advocate for the men in your life but it’s very tone deaf in our current climate of misogyny.

Men famously never support women and girls rights or call out abuse when they see it, and abuse does come in all forms.

This whole thread is giving Pick me vibes.

Have you changed your position at all OP since you started the thread? Obviously you're still going to be upset about the unfortunate, and thankfully very rare, things that happened to the men you know, but do you still see hold the same stance that negativity from some women towards some men is such a huge problem that it should be something women need to address? If so, what is your suggestion, that women stop talking about male problem behaviour? What would be ideal for you? (Sorry, a lot of questions!)

You want to discuss the male side?

You, a woman with no sons, want to discuss how badly men are impacted by women?

Why? Who does that help? The men you are so worried about? How does having a conversation without them help? Unless it's to tell women it's their fault and they need ro be kinder to solve the problem?

You keep bringing up situations as though they prove women hate men. But all they prove is some people are awful to other people. You seem to be more appalled that your brother got accused of something and nothing happened to him, than you were regarding women being killed by their partner.

If you know men accuse women of things, you know that some people do terrible things. Not women, people. You claimed you would be worried for a son, if you had one, incase they got accused of something they didn't do. It very unlikely that will happen.

Your daughter has a much bigger chance of a man hurting her and him still not facing consequences. Your daughter, who actually exists, is far more at risk. But your concern is women on mumsnet might not like men.

Our society is run by men. Men have the power. If how society is set up is negatively impacting men, who are the people who cab change it?

It is maddening that some women won’t see what’s right in front of them when it comes to the male/female power imbalance.

Power has corrupted the class of men since the first cave man overpowered the first cave woman or whatever.

I know that sounds dramatic, but I think it’s important to understand just how fundamental the power imbalance is. Of course, most men are civilised creatures these days, and many of them are excellent individuals!

But this stuff is hardwired in. There are plenty of men that just fucking hate women just for being women. They get off on hurting them and killing them. We know this. This is misogyny at its worst.

Misandry is… nothing.

It’s awful that you friend got accused of rape, if he didn’t do it.

But what’s you point? Men are more likely to raped (by another man) than get falsely accused. Even when men have raped women they have a tiny chance of being arrested, charged, convicted.

So that situation isn’t anti men, it’s one woman doing something awful. Explain how that situation is proof MN or any women are anti men. That woman wanted to hurt him. Not men. Him. It wasn’t an action aimed at hurting men in general. It was awful and she shouldn’t have done it. But it wasn’t aimed at men.

Your brothers situation has already been addressed. A drunk accused him of assault and nothing happened to him. The fact that’s it was a woman is neither here nor there. Do you believe men don’t accuse women of things? You don’t believe their report their ex to social services, or the police or trying and destroy their lives?

Any abuse in a relationship is awful. You do realise that many women don’t come forward because of stigma? Embarrassment, shame, fear. The feelings may come from a different place when the victim is a man, than it would for a woman but those feelings are still there.

How can you not see that women, who don’t like men have that mind set because of men. Not just the men they are related to, the many men them come in contact with. I have never met a woman, never mind several who hate men just cause.

Are you also aware that it’s believed more women than men attempt to commit suicide? It’s just that more men kill the selves in violent ways so less chance of being found and helped.

Since society is run mostly by males, why do you think some women disliking some men has anything to do the male side rate?

You do realise your daughter is far more likely to be sexually assaulted, then ignored by the police than she has of falsely accusing a man of doing something he didn’t.

You think that woman who have negatives views of men and also have sons are impacting the sons. Yet haven’t considered your ‘women are awful to men and men are suffering’ is likely impacting your daughter?

A lot of men talked about on this thread will have no respect for anyone be it women, police any one in authority, some even their own mothers.

I have zero contact with my sibling/parents due to how they've let their sons/Grandsons grow up, dismissing or ignoring bad behaviour by way of making excuses for them, every time the behaviour got worse...but it was ok cause so and so's DS's are no different...
No, it's enabling their wrongs.

They were terribly behaved from a young age and as years went by they took to crime and didnt even fear being infront of a judge.

OK, so we’ve established that this is a NAMALT thread.

Some posters (including OP) are getting confused between discussion of individuals (eg a man you know who’s been subjected to a false allegation) and discussion of the class of men.

Every individual deserves fair treatment- man or woman. The man should be entitled to a fair hearing and not pronounced guilty ‘because he’s a man.’

However, when discussing men as a group the women of MN are more than entitled to base their attitudes and advice on the statistics drawn from men as a group. For every man falsely accused, there will be probably hundreds if not thousands of girls/women assaulted or abused. The statistics reveal massive favour towards men when we’re looking at class analysis.

Misandry is barely even a thing, let alone a problem. Many women are fearful/distrustful of men, yes, but this is based on the experience of women down the ages. Women have every reason to dislike the class of people who systematically oppressed them since the dawn of time. This is at a class level of course. We’re perfectly able to take each individual on their merits.

And in response to the male poster who claimed no responsibility in any of this, I say this: privilege comes with responsibility, so while you experience male privilege, it is your obligation to take on some responsibility.

I have honestly never seen a post that says ALL men are abusive, rapists and murderers and NO man is any good. The closest I've seen is some women saying that they have personally experienced only bad ones. So, given that, there really isn't any need to come on to threads where women are talking about bad men to remind everyone NAMALT. Because, honestly, we know! Just because we say 'men' instead of 'some men' doesn't mean we don't know that your DH might be very nice indeed, but, in the nicest possible way, it's neither relevant or of any interest. Because the thread is not about your DH, its about the bad men. By bringing your lovely and entirely irrelevant husband into the discussion, you are turning attention away from the topic at hand. Effectively you are hiding the bad men behind the good ones, by saying don't look over there at them, look over here at this nice one instead. That's why people accuse you of the 'not my Nigel thing', not because they don't believe your Nigel is nice.

OP I'm a mother to 2 sons, who was brought up by a single father - my mother left for a new life with a new boyfriend in another country when I was 8 and my sister was 4. I agree that there is an unfair opinion that all men are crap. Most women and even plenty of men have very low standards of expectation for male behaviour.
All men are to be held accountable for the actions of a small minority.
I have (of course, like most women) been the victim of sexual assault and also experienced male violence but I am sensible enough to understand that this isnt the fault of ALL males. The men in my life are OVERWHELMINGLY good decent people. However I do know that not all men are.
On Mumsnet particularly though, this opinion is always shut down with "not my Nigel" which frankly I feel is equally offensive as the "Karen" insults which the same people get (rightfully) offended by.
Society has a very long way to go before we reach equality for the sexes but blaming all men for the actions of a few isn't the way to get their IMHO.

However the Met and government ministers were accused of having a tone-deaf response for suggesting women should flag down a bus.

It is not just in friendship groups where they cluster, it is societal.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/01/police-must-win-back-public-confidence-after-sarah-everard-case-says-minister

Well that just can't be true. Because these men still exist and still have friends, family members and colleagues. You aren't calling them out because it's easier not to.

You mentioned male victims who are not believed. I pointed out that female victims are also frequently not believed - so not an issue exclusive to men. There are plenty of articles and research into why people frequently blame victims. That was my point - the victim blaming issues are not exclusive to male victims.

And of the men who have assaulted and abused me, not a single one has faced any consequence. I don't think your experience of people rallying around the female is typical. Again, this is all relevant because you mentioned people not believing male victims as if this is something specific to men, and because you mentioned people rallying around the woman. So it is very relevant to point out that women are very frequently not believed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9136376/

Nope. In my experience they get called out once and then dropped from friendship groups. They cluster together in like minded groups. That’s the challenge, how to change mindsets in group where they (do not) self police

There's far more that you can do and you know it. It's more than just overt violence. It's calling out the "locker room talk", it's condemning the cheaters, it's dropping the mate who can't quite behave himself when he's had a few too many. You do know these men, you're either ignoring it, or ignorant to it.

This is all spot on