Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

Op, it's a fine line to balance. I have a DS who I love beyond all things. He is kind, generous, occasionally selfish as most teenagers are.

I grew up with an abusive and violent father. I cannot bring myself to trust a man. I just can't. I watched him abuse my dm for 16 years. He set out systematically to undermine, control and damage me and my sisters.

I had further bad experiences with men as an adult, and have chosen to withdraw completely from male social life. My decision.

But I am very careful to show a balanced and welcoming view to my DS. To value him and his opinions. To welcome his male friends. At the same time to teach him to respect the girls and women around him.

I think about that issue probably more than any other aspect of parenting. I'm determined history will not repeat itself. My DS will not grow up with the shabby/nasty values of either his f or his grandf if I can possibly help it.

I'm sure a lot of mums on here are equally focused.

I have sons. We’ve had many ‘double-standards’ discussions. They’ve argued they’re far more at risk of attack on the streets, but more concern is shown to young women’s safety. They’ve complained about being told off by female teachers for talking in class, while girls are constantly chatting.

Like many young men, they’re not immune from the backwash of Tate and his ilk. I’ve had to challenge their views many times and spent a lot of time chatting to them about the patriarchal, sexist society we live in and how it affects men too. But how they must understand how it affects women. How hard we’ve had to fight even to get to where we are now. Things aren’t equally as bad for men because society’s constructed to meet men’s needs. How men also need to question the ‘usual way of doing things’ and play their part to ensure equity.

I’ve also had to explain many times that hating some socially typical/still acceptable male behaviour (eg expecting women to do more than their share of household chores or childcare) is v different to hating men. We should all hate male behaviour that’s disrespectful to women and not want any woman to feel she has to tolerate it. Including from our sons.

I did go through a stage of hating and fearing men: as a result of a tumultuous experiences with men from childhood onwards.
After a lot of trauma work, I no longer hate men, have healthy friendships with men, choose not to date and am at peace with shitty choices I made regarding men in my past.
I am very much pro-women, though, so seeing any female mistreated by a male does make my blood boil and stirs up of feelings of resentment towards men, but...I'm at peace with that.

@KendraTheVampyrSlayer any woman who says another woman can't decide for themselves they get on better with men is the problem

I get on better with men

And I find it impossible to imagine how so many women on here ever had children, because it involves shagging a despised man, and risking giving birth to one

I've said it many times before, it is hardly surprising that the biggest killer of young men is suicide

I don't think the suicide rates reflect your point, unfortunately.

As far as my daughter is concerned her husband IS raising their children. He is working the long hours that he does to give them the best life possible.

I believe it is. And a glance at the paper- or indeed just talking to my DD- reminds me that women on MN aren't the only ones with bad experiences.

I guess part of the problem is we have seen this play out for millenia.

You get a woman saying she thinks her husband is having a breakdown. Many posters will state positively he is having an affair, she's all no, no he wouldnt do that to me we've been married 25 years. Turns out he is having an affair and using the script. Every single time.

So when a man shows the usual signs, we tell her, to warn her. Get her ducks in a row, etc.
When a man posts, it usually him taking his wife for granted. Hes asked does he do any parenting, does he do any of the mental load, he pshaws at that, tells us that's what his wife is for, and we immediately know, he is the same type of man we warn women about.
Or an incel.

When you do this long enough, you can read between the lines.
How many women say oh no hes a fabulous dad, and later on in the thread realise they are not even getting bare minimum out of him. Hes definitely not a great dad.

As for us with sons, my son has broken some hearts,that's life, but I do believe he would do his fair share in the house and mental load. And if I found out that he thinks its solely the womans job, I'd be having a very strong word with him.

Hope you feel better now thats of your chest.
Thank you for the feedback have a good day.

I have a son. I have to say the last thing I worry about is that he will be the victim of a false allegation.

Why? It's not exactly rare.

However I mainly try to remember that mumsnet is largely full of women with bad experiences.

I do.

I also use the forum as a space for general entertainment. I also marvel at how in my view, general marital or relationship problems grow into a catastrophe.
Then it's wholesale LTB or I'm married to Peter perfect.

The point I'm getting at, is there's a huge amount of posters who don't even read the OPs posts and just berate the men

There are plenty of posters on here who don’t even read the OPs posts and just berate the OP themselves, the MIL, and anyone else they have a hobbyhorse about. It’s not that posters are anti-men, it’s that lots of posters are just dicks to everyone.

Any woman who says "I get on better with men" is part of the enabling problem. And yes, you're a "cool girl". Just like you're complaining about posters generalising all men as bad, here you are putting all women in the same category. Hypocrisy.

I didn't say anything to the contrary, but obviously if someone is out working long hours then they're unable to be at home to look after the children.

Ok, fine. And do you think your daughter would be happy to have her husband described as not raising his children?

Even if men are the only ones working in a family, it doesn't mean that they don't have the power and obligation to raise their children too. Just like all the working folk do.

And also, if genuinely you know most people who are SAHMs throughout the child's whole childhood and not just the preschool years, you move in circles more privileged than most.

This.

Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement.

Normally once you have been in one abusive relationship you have a higher chance of going into another unless you do intensive therapy as you cannot see the beginnings of abuse clearly. This actually is a thing. This suggests that you cannot see the many undertones on these threads and probably take it all at face value. You can't see what the other posters are seeing.

As an aside, have you done The Freedom Programme yet? It is highly recommended.

And several I know are SAHMs, my daughter being one of them while her husband works almost 50 hours per week.

I have a son. I have to say the last thing I worry about is that he will be the victim of a false allegation. The very last thing. Doesn't even figure on my radar.
I also have a daughter. Guess what I worry about?

Firstly, many mothers work.

And secondly, working doesn’t mean you don’t hold responsibility for parenting the children. Work doesn’t stop you parenting.

If parenting is the issue, it’s both mother and fathers that would be responsible for how a child is raised. Wouldn’t it?