Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

I saw the other thread you described op.

I don't think it was a question of hating men per say, rather I saw posters had a disbelief in the op.

She was euphoric after two dates, known the man a year, after admitting she had been separated a year, yet had only two dates.

She also sounded nonchalant of the abuse she had suffered at the hands of her ex.

People often change details of course but call it second sense, this to me at least sounded like a woman who had won the prize, so to speak.
Things sounded unresolved, the judgement you speak of is probably alarm bells going off from not just the male's details but the the female's exuberance.

So all in all inconsistancies, there have been many posts at the moment like this, where the op's high is utterly palpable.

I think there are quite a few wise posters on mumsnet, some like to think they just want to shit on other people's dreams, I don't believe that is the case.

Why is the bar so low for men. Depressing.

Why do so many women put up with crap men though? I was agog when I first read some MNs threads about relationships. It’s not something I see in my life.

I've been accused of being a man hater on here. Wrongly as i happens. I have advised male OPs politely and constructively and told women if i think they are being unfair to male partners. But people who throw out man hater when theyre on the weak end of an argument dont bother to take a balanced view. I have two adult sons.
I criticise behaviour, so if my sons did some of the things described on here, like cheat, lie, do nothing around the house, be poor fathers, then no they wouldn't be exempt. Why would they?
I also recognise on a wider level the disproportionate contribution men make to some of the most serious problems in society, sexual crime, violence and murder. How could I not when the stats are explicit and the problem has been called an emergency by the police?

To the best of my knowledge my sons dont contribute to these stats, just as many men dont. So when i talk about problems with men, if the cap doesnt fit a man, he doesnt need to wear it. My sons know this. They also know from insider experience that men can be a huge problem for women and wouldnt expect me to stay silent about that for fear of offending good men. Good men wouldnt be offended.

Well a lot of users lack comprehension hence why posts aren’t read/understood properly. Many users seem to be lonely/bored so just want to be contrary. You see the black & white thinking on most threads but in reality there is a whole lot of grey.

Yes. Like another recent thread where a 21y dad was lauded for staying with his girlfriend and being a dad of two. Amazing partner, father etc. I rolled my eyes. Staying with your pregnant partner and parenting the kids you created is the bare minimum that should be expected from a man. No medals given from me.

I was never too proud to change the nappies of my own children but ain't nobody praising me! I wonder why.

I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Is there some reason you would not like to be associated with your own opinions on this matter, OP?

I'm proud to say the my married son is a good dad, never to busy to play with the kids, cook dinner or tidy up. He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

My DiL told me that people have asked to have him when she's fed up of him

But if a woman does all that nobody notices or dismisses it as her natural role that she should be doing it automatically. She is not seen. As soon as a man does it he is an amazing human being and hailed a hero.

That is the double standards right there. And many women here call that out especially on the Relationship board.

((Deliberately didn't quote or tag as just using the post as an example rather than directing it at the poster)).

Sure, that is a recent popularised usage of epidemic and Oxford does add new usages every year to their dictionary.

It doesn’t mean I have to agree with the connotations of these new usages.

In the UK there are twice as many men killed by other men than women killed by men. So to claim this is some kind of gendered issue or mysogyny is simply being untethered from reality

But the crucial point I'm making is that it's not indicative of societal misogyny, as it's not weighted towards women. I fact the opposite is true

are you smoking crack @Beljin? you’re literally stating stats that make the opposite point to that you seem to wish to make.

and then you suggest that there is no societal misogyny/ patriarchy. In fact it’s the other way round. Uh huh

The Oxford dictionary describes two definitions of the word "epidemic":

1. A large number of cases of a particular disease or medical condition happening at the same time in a particular community.

1. A sudden rapid increase in how often something bad happens.

If you have a problem with the second definition of the word "epidemic", take it up with the Oxford dictionary.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/epidemic_1

I would concentrate on fixing myself and my family in your situation OP. I wonder why you are deflecting by starting argumentative threads.

@GettingStuffed

I'm proud to say the my married son is a good dad, never to busy to play with the kids, cook dinner or tidy up. He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

Your son sounds lovely, please don't think I'm suggesting others or making a personal remark about him.

But can you see how some of us may find it depressing that in 2024 a man is so disproportionally praised for doing things that should surely be expected and are absolutely already expected of women?

I've never seen someone praise a woman for never being 'too proud to change a nappy' or look after her own children when they are ill, for example.

Again this isn't a jibe at your son who sounds fab. I'm just pointing out the gulf between what is expected of / praised in women and men.

@GettingStuffed

He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

I find ‘proud’ a very telling word here. Why would he be too proud to do these basic obligations? Implies some sort of elevated status that he’s gracious enough to overlook.

The bar for men’s behaviour is generally low. MN is one place where it’s regularly called out. I, for one, find it refreshing.

@eggandchip

A single man got called a rapist on her because he saw a professional escort.My comment was. If a woman is doing a job she likes and wants to do and not hurting any one thats ok on MN. But if a man pays this woman and shes happy to do so because thats her job he`s called a rapist.

How can a punter be sure that the women he pays for sex is not a victim of trafficking, abuse or coercion? He can't. There is no possible way he can know that. And in the sex work industry a massive number of women are victims of those things.

Do you think a decent man would take the risk that he is contributing to a woman being forced to have sex with him? Whether through trafficking, abuse or coercion she is going through behind the scenes?

Would a decent man really risk that, just to have sex on demand?

What a hero 😆

Violence isn’t an infectious disease so cannot be an epidemic or pandemic.

Epidemics/pandemics are a force of nature which is the opposite of violence which is purely manmade and unnatural.

I really dislike using the terms to describe violence.

Haven’t read the whole thread yet, but this stopped me in my tracks.

Are you saying that you see no problem with prostitution and the men that pay for sex? You think women choose this ‘job’ out of a reasonable range of options? You think paid ‘consent’ is any sort of real consent? Utterly clueless.

As for your half-baked comment about child maintenance. Well, I guess you’re an MRA.

🤣

Is it just that we're do used to seeing women put down/ mocked/ derided, that's it's more noticeable when it's men in the firing line?

Fwiw, I have a ds and dd. I don't think either of them are perfect or beyond reproach. I've yet to see how they will be in relationship, but hopefully they have learned from dh and I. Dh is also not perfect, but neither am I.

@Daniagainagainagainagain could you please explain why you think women are to blame for staying with neglectful men, but not to blame for staying with abusive men? For someone who apparently doesn't like double standards, this seems to be incredibly hypocritical.

I am against victim blaming for victims of both neglect and assault. Why are your standards so inconsistent?

You are talking about homicide. What about the DV statistics of aggression, coercion, sexual and financial exploitation, emotional and physical abuse?

Only a man would seriously think you can’t prove double standards without a spreadsheet. We women use our spidey senses, gut feelings and feminine mystique to suss out double standards.