Page 13 | Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

Daniagainagainagainagain · 2024-08-26T11:36:42+00:00

Apologies for the grabby title. I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on. Anyway back to the point. I see SO many threads on here where the topic about the thread is about a guy. It's not even necessarily bad about the bloke in question, but so many many posters just seem to hate men. Not give them the benefit of the doubt. Tear them a new arsehole for merely posting on MN asking for advice. There was a thread recently about a woman seeing a really nice guy, a gentlemen as she described him where he had been separated for literally YEARS but wasn't divorced. Turns out there were cultural differences meaning divorce in that country is very rare. People kept saying 'throw him back in the sea' 'he's a liar' one poster called him a wanker.. there was no evidence that he was a wanker and the OP seemed happy with the guy. Just more people clutching for their moment to berate men. It's always the guys fault on here no matter what. It's always the same posters more often than not berating men, shooting them down, and just hating them. I wonder, do these women posters have sons? If so, do you think your sons are exempt from such awful insults because 'my boy would never'? I can't imagine these posters talking about their sons like that. So do you pick and choose, is it one rule for your sons and one for all other men? Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement. I am not naive to think some of these guys deserve what they get. AIBU? To think there's huge double standards? To call strangers with no reason to, wankers, but to also think the son shines out of your son's arses? I know I'll probably ruffle some feathers but I'd genuinely like to know. And yes I have DC.

Fluufer · 26/08/2024 18:48

ToBeDetermined · 26/08/2024 18:45

A favourite hobby is not as of yet listed as a type of Domestic Abuse in the law, so I agree it is different from domestic abuse.

Yes, an abuser can also have a time consuming hobby, but it’s not that which is part of or a cause of the abuse.

Obviously I am excluding addictions- alcohol, drugs, gambling these are not hobbies.

On choosing a hobby over a partner or child, this is bad behaviour and the responsibility of whoever chooses it, but I think we can agree that not all bad behaviour is domestic abuse.

Edited

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Abusive behaviors can absolutely include excessive time and money spent on hobbies. I wasn't talking about legally defined abuse, as I'm sure we're all well aware that abusive behavior is more broad than that.

ToBeDetermined · 26/08/2024 18:45

Fluufer · 26/08/2024 18:40

I'm just pointing our your hypocrisy, which you are doubling down on in that post.
A man choosing golf over his partner and kids absolutely can be a form, or part of, abuse. Abuse is more just violence. You put up with cheating and violence, so I'm sure you can quite easily imagine why some women put up with golf...

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A favourite hobby is not as of yet listed as a type of Domestic Abuse in the law, so I agree it is different from domestic abuse.

Yes, an abuser can also have a time consuming hobby, but it’s not that which is part of or a cause of the abuse.

Obviously I am excluding addictions- alcohol, drugs, gambling these are not hobbies.

On choosing a hobby over a partner or child, this is bad behaviour and the responsibility of whoever chooses it, but I think we can agree that not all bad behaviour is domestic abuse.

SquirrelMadness · 26/08/2024 18:43

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:34

@Fluufer

Well if you actually read instead of being rude, you'll see that earlier on in the thread I said I 'resonated with it takes 7 times to leave an abuser.' I know it's hard to leave. Believe me, I've just done it! I have never said I'm better than anyone. That's what YOU said.

Where on earth have I said that it's the woman's fault if they're being abused? Or they 'put up' with domestic abuse? One last time.. I said if someone (man or woman) settles with someone who puts their hobbies first which is where the shining golf balls scenario came from, if she chooses to stay and have children with them. Then she is 'putting up with' someone who has shit priorities. That's not saying it's the woman's fault for the man's behaviour. But some women DO choose to put up with shit behaviour. Vastly different than putting up with domestic abuse.
*
Domestic abuse more often than not manifests over the relationship.* Youre love bombed at the beginning and it starts with shouting, then swearing, then punching a door, then so on. DV is VERY different to a guy who chooses golf over his partner. Both not right, but one much worse than the other.

There's no false ignorance, it's my experience. You are no better either. :)

You have said that if a man behaves badly, it is his wife's fault for putting up with it. Ignoring your wife and child to play golf is bad behaviour. It is neglect.

So you are saying that in some situations, women are to blame for putting up with bad behaviour. But not in your situation. This is the double standard.

I am well aware of how abuse manifests in a relationship. Of course I know that being abusive is worse than being neglectful.

But what I am repeatedly saying and you seem to be willfully misunderstanding is that NOBODY is responsible for their partner's bad behaviour. Yes some bad behaviour is worse than others but in all cases the only person responsible is the person behaving badly.

Fluufer · 26/08/2024 18:40

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:34

@Fluufer

Well if you actually read instead of being rude, you'll see that earlier on in the thread I said I 'resonated with it takes 7 times to leave an abuser.' I know it's hard to leave. Believe me, I've just done it! I have never said I'm better than anyone. That's what YOU said.

Where on earth have I said that it's the woman's fault if they're being abused? Or they 'put up' with domestic abuse? One last time.. I said if someone (man or woman) settles with someone who puts their hobbies first which is where the shining golf balls scenario came from, if she chooses to stay and have children with them. Then she is 'putting up with' someone who has shit priorities. That's not saying it's the woman's fault for the man's behaviour. But some women DO choose to put up with shit behaviour. Vastly different than putting up with domestic abuse.
*
Domestic abuse more often than not manifests over the relationship.* Youre love bombed at the beginning and it starts with shouting, then swearing, then punching a door, then so on. DV is VERY different to a guy who chooses golf over his partner. Both not right, but one much worse than the other.

There's no false ignorance, it's my experience. You are no better either. :)

I'm just pointing our your hypocrisy, which you are doubling down on in that post.
A man choosing golf over his partner and kids absolutely can be a form, or part of, abuse. Abuse is more just violence. You put up with cheating and violence, so I'm sure you can quite easily imagine why some women put up with golf...

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Missamyp · 26/08/2024 18:36

Someone has asked for evidence. Those denying is the evidence.
Some are blatant.
Some are masquerading.
Some do it because they're being supportive.
Some quote sociology/humanities theory.
Some are othering.
Some invent a straw man argument to support a non-existent issue.
Some just quite plainly like being a troll.
Some want to be popular.

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:34

@Fluufer

Well if you actually read instead of being rude, you'll see that earlier on in the thread I said I 'resonated with it takes 7 times to leave an abuser.' I know it's hard to leave. Believe me, I've just done it! I have never said I'm better than anyone. That's what YOU said.

Where on earth have I said that it's the woman's fault if they're being abused? Or they 'put up' with domestic abuse? One last time.. I said if someone (man or woman) settles with someone who puts their hobbies first which is where the shining golf balls scenario came from, if she chooses to stay and have children with them. Then she is 'putting up with' someone who has shit priorities. That's not saying it's the woman's fault for the man's behaviour. But some women DO choose to put up with shit behaviour. Vastly different than putting up with domestic abuse.
*
Domestic abuse more often than not manifests over the relationship.* Youre love bombed at the beginning and it starts with shouting, then swearing, then punching a door, then so on. DV is VERY different to a guy who chooses golf over his partner. Both not right, but one much worse than the other.

There's no false ignorance, it's my experience. You are no better either. :)

OP posts:

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:26

runrabbitruns · 26/08/2024 18:22

Did you really try to imply that being in an abusive relationship is now labelled as cool? I’m hoping I’ve misunderstood you.

If that was aimed at me, I have not implied such a thing.

I don't think that was aimed at me, but just for the record in case anyone thinks it is.
I find it hard to believe anyone would imply that.

Christ, threads really do get wild.

OP posts:

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:24

LuminousCrystalFox · 26/08/2024 17:39

I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Is there some reason you would not like to be associated with your own opinions on this matter, OP?

My posts include detailed medical threads with a new medical diagnosis my daughter is going through. Also a cancer diagnosis that I have received which is very rare and outing, due to my age.

I'd rather those not be bought to this thread.

Probably similar reasons why others NC when they post. Nothing behind it, simply that.

OP posts:

Prawncow · 26/08/2024 18:24

Boomer55 · 26/08/2024 18:15

There is an anti-men culture on here. But perhaps it’s just bad experiences influencing opinions.🤷‍♀️

I think that it’s ‘anti men’ to hold them to such a low standard that they’re considered a prince amongst men for paying child support or looking after their own children once in a while.

Bodeganights · 26/08/2024 18:22

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 14:57

'You get a woman saying she thinks her husband is having a breakdown. Many posters will state positively he is having an affair, she's all no, no he wouldnt do that to me we've been married 25 years. Turns out he is having an affair and using the script. Every single time.'
@Bodeganights

Did you see the thread where the OP contracted chlamydia, and the hysteria over her husband cheating on her, 'doing the script' and LTB. When the OP said her husband is shaken and shocked about the diagnosis, the husband was also 'doing the script'?

One or two sensible posters who weren't trying to rile the OP up suggested that she took a retest. She did and it was negative, the GP confirmed that they got the test mixed up and she was given the wrong result.

It's not every single time. It is a lot of the time, but not every single time.

It's enough times to be a pattern.
And it's the pattern that's important in these situations.

It's an age old question, how many people have to be hurt(in this case have miserable lives) so that one innocent man is ok. Do we tell ALL the women it's ok to stay in shit circumstances? Or do we tell all the women to leave?
The script is useful because it's so commonplace, if we use the script as the point where it's all gone Pete tong, then we save a whole bunch of women from a desperate life. I know which I'd prefer. But you seem to think women should just stay, take the shit life, even after you left your shit life a year ago.

EdithBond · 26/08/2024 18:22

5128gap · 26/08/2024 17:41

I've been accused of being a man hater on here. Wrongly as i happens. I have advised male OPs politely and constructively and told women if i think they are being unfair to male partners. But people who throw out man hater when theyre on the weak end of an argument dont bother to take a balanced view. I have two adult sons.
I criticise behaviour, so if my sons did some of the things described on here, like cheat, lie, do nothing around the house, be poor fathers, then no they wouldn't be exempt. Why would they?
I also recognise on a wider level the disproportionate contribution men make to some of the most serious problems in society, sexual crime, violence and murder. How could I not when the stats are explicit and the problem has been called an emergency by the police?

To the best of my knowledge my sons dont contribute to these stats, just as many men dont. So when i talk about problems with men, if the cap doesnt fit a man, he doesnt need to wear it. My sons know this. They also know from insider experience that men can be a huge problem for women and wouldnt expect me to stay silent about that for fear of offending good men. Good men wouldnt be offended.

Well said 👏

runrabbitruns · 26/08/2024 18:22

Did you really try to imply that being in an abusive relationship is now labelled as cool? I’m hoping I’ve misunderstood you.

Fluufer · 26/08/2024 18:20

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:12

'@Daniagainagainagainagain could you please explain why you think women are to blame for staying with neglectful men, but not to blame for staying with abusive men? For someone who apparently doesn't like double standards, this seems to be incredibly hypocritical.

I am against victim blaming for victims of both neglect and assault. Why are your standards so inconsistent?'

@SquirrelMadness

The post where I said the woman was silly for putting up with it, was in regards to a guy playing golf and shining his balls. That is vastly different to emotional and physical abuse, where the only blame is on the man or woman who is the abuser. There is no victim blaming for abuse, I have never said such a thing. Because I don't believe that.

But if you choose to settle for a man (or woman) who puts their hobbies first and slacks at home, then you choose to put up with it. It's as simple as that. Domestic abuse, and a partner who has their priorities wrong are VASTLY different.

That's as best as I can explain it. Not double standards at all, just different opinions on both very different scenarios.

Women stay with abusive shit men for the same reasons you didn't leave the first time you were cheated on. You put up with it too, drop the faux ignorance. You're no better.

SquirrelMadness · 26/08/2024 18:20

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:12

'@Daniagainagainagainagain could you please explain why you think women are to blame for staying with neglectful men, but not to blame for staying with abusive men? For someone who apparently doesn't like double standards, this seems to be incredibly hypocritical.

I am against victim blaming for victims of both neglect and assault. Why are your standards so inconsistent?'

@SquirrelMadness

The post where I said the woman was silly for putting up with it, was in regards to a guy playing golf and shining his balls. That is vastly different to emotional and physical abuse, where the only blame is on the man or woman who is the abuser. There is no victim blaming for abuse, I have never said such a thing. Because I don't believe that.

But if you choose to settle for a man (or woman) who puts their hobbies first and slacks at home, then you choose to put up with it. It's as simple as that. Domestic abuse, and a partner who has their priorities wrong are VASTLY different.

That's as best as I can explain it. Not double standards at all, just different opinions on both very different scenarios.

This IS double standards.

In one case you are saying the woman is to blame for her partner's poor behaviour (putting his hobbies first and ignoring the needs of his partner and children, which is neglect). In your case (quite rightly) you are saying that you were not to blame for the behaviour of your partner.

Nobody is to blame for the behaviour of their partner, whether that behaviour is neglectful or abusive.

The woman who is being neglected by her golf loving partner is no more to blame for her partner's behaviour than you are. I also don't know how else to explain this.

Starlingexpress · 26/08/2024 18:16

Boomer55 · 26/08/2024 18:15

There is an anti-men culture on here. But perhaps it’s just bad experiences influencing opinions.🤷‍♀️

Yeah and male dominated sites are a perfect oasis of fluffy commentary and NAWALT posts 🤣

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:16

DickEmery · 26/08/2024 17:32

I would concentrate on fixing myself and my family in your situation OP. I wonder why you are deflecting by starting argumentative threads.

There's nothing to fix, you don't know a thing about my situation. I would rather staple my nipples than 'fix' my relationship. One of the proudest things I've ever done is walk away with my daughter in tow.

I walked away from a domestic abusive relationship and I'm still in therapy. If I choose to write a post on here that's my own prerogative. No ones holding a gun to your head forcing you to comment. Simply run along.

OP posts:

alldayeveryday247 · 26/08/2024 18:15

@Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear

I thought it was pretty horrible for OP to reply to a woman sharing the statistics of women murdered by male partners each year asking if she 'personally knows' any women who were murdered by a male partner.

Because her motive was surely either to suggest the statistics are inflated or to suggest that women shouldn't share the figures unless personally affected.

Both of which are pretty horrible takes on it tbh.

Perhaps if those weren't her motives, OP can explain her thinking behind asking that poster the question she did?

Boomer55 · 26/08/2024 18:15

There is an anti-men culture on here. But perhaps it’s just bad experiences influencing opinions.🤷‍♀️

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 18:13

The whole premise of this thread is bs.

I find it hard to believe OP is a woman.

Starlingexpress · 26/08/2024 18:12

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 26/08/2024 18:09

There are all sorts of mental gymnastics on here - the people who cannot see past their own experience to imagine different perspectives, the ones with an axe to grind that make everything about that, no matter where it starts and the ones who just want to say something horrible or troll-y.

Where do you reckon the OP fits into your categories?

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 18:12

'@Daniagainagainagainagain could you please explain why you think women are to blame for staying with neglectful men, but not to blame for staying with abusive men? For someone who apparently doesn't like double standards, this seems to be incredibly hypocritical.

I am against victim blaming for victims of both neglect and assault. Why are your standards so inconsistent?'

@SquirrelMadness

The post where I said the woman was silly for putting up with it, was in regards to a guy playing golf and shining his balls. That is vastly different to emotional and physical abuse, where the only blame is on the man or woman who is the abuser. There is no victim blaming for abuse, I have never said such a thing. Because I don't believe that.

But if you choose to settle for a man (or woman) who puts their hobbies first and slacks at home, then you choose to put up with it. It's as simple as that. Domestic abuse, and a partner who has their priorities wrong are VASTLY different.

That's as best as I can explain it. Not double standards at all, just different opinions on both very different scenarios.

OP posts:

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 26/08/2024 18:09

There are all sorts of mental gymnastics on here - the people who cannot see past their own experience to imagine different perspectives, the ones with an axe to grind that make everything about that, no matter where it starts and the ones who just want to say something horrible or troll-y.

TinkerTiger · 26/08/2024 18:02

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 13:08

Do you personally know any woman who has been killed by their partner?

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I know more than one, although I don’t know what anyone’s personal experience has to do with actual statistics.

You say you were in an abusive relationship? I hope you’re having therapy to help you come to terms with that, your attitude towards women in this post in regards to men is giving off some red flags as being vulnerable to attracting a similar type of man again.

NowImNotDoingIt · 26/08/2024 17:58

AdviceNeeded2024 · 26/08/2024 13:06

It’s the double standards more than anything…

Man: Wife isn’t intimate I’m fantasising about someone else
Responses: You’re a selfish bastard, it’s all your fault, you are a vile human.

Woman: Husband isn’t intimate I’m fantasising about someone else
Responses: Do it and keep it secret, you deserve better than your husband, it’s not your fault

Etc etc

Absolute bs.

I've been on several threads like these from both sexes. Unless the lack of sex is situational (in which case the advise focuses on the situation), the replies normally follow the pattern of try x,y,z , talk to each other, see a therapist and THEN (for both sexes) you deserve better than this, leave , don't cheat.