Page 11 | Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:23

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 21:21

I haven't gone anywhere?

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I meant your last comment was deleted…

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 21:21

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:16

@Daniagainagainagainagain

I would reply to your well-argued point (as I think it was going to be to me) but you seem to have been deleted.

Ask yourself why you need to come on here and defend men against nasty women saying mean things about them. Men aren’t doing the same for you.

I haven't gone anywhere?

OP posts:

NowImNotDoingIt · 26/08/2024 21:19

The thread discusses whether Mumsent has a significant number of posters who are anti-men. The consensus is that it does.

It's not anti men. It's anti abusive,cheating,neglectful, selfish , extra child, addicted to porn/drugs/gambling type of men.

Why? Because, generally their wives/partners deserve better.

5128gap · 26/08/2024 21:16

Missamyp · 26/08/2024 20:55

Your post is a classic example of a straw man fallacy.
The thread discusses whether Mumsent has a significant number of posters who are anti-men. The consensus is that it does.

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The thread discusses how mothers of sons with negative views of men reconcile the two. No one was asked to discuss whether MN has a significant numbers of posters who are anti men and there has been no vote or leaning of comments to suggest there is a consensus of opinion in agreement with this.

I think you have misunderstood the OP and also lack understanding of the difference between 'consensus of opinion' and your own opinion.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:16

@Daniagainagainagainagain

I would reply to your well-argued point (as I think it was going to be to me) but you seem to have been deleted.

Ask yourself why you need to come on here and defend men against nasty women saying mean things about them. Men aren’t doing the same for you.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:14

M340 · 26/08/2024 21:08

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine that's actually a current running thread example

In those exact, very simplistic, terms? I doubt it.

Every now and then (statistically) you will get an outlier thread, or you will get a woman who hates all men. So? Doesn’t make OP’s premise any less pathetic.

ImSoExited · 26/08/2024 21:14

No not all men are horrible.

But I have been affected by DV, profoundly, and it does affect you, not to the point of hating all men but it does give you experience of the many tactics in the way men abuse their power and strength.

What I can't understand is your post asking for a poster if she knew someone personally who had been murdered at the hands of a male and your other post separating neglect from abuse.

Neglect is a pre cursor for abuse, it goes hand in hand with devaluing and dehumanising women, it is a powerful tool.

M340 · 26/08/2024 21:08

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine that's actually a current running thread example

LondonFox · 26/08/2024 21:07

ToBeDetermined · 26/08/2024 19:55

I don’t agree that posting the true facts regarding murders is minimising murder or rape? It is true that men are 2x more likely to be murdered than women. That is a fact.

It is also a fact that the murder rate is at an all time historic low.

Rape, sexual assault, these are issues, but stating the facts on murder have noting to do with either.

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Did you ever had statistics during education.
If not, let me help you out?
Google how many women are murderrd by men.
Google how many men are murdered by other men.
And then,google how many men or women are murdered by women.
Women make insignificant fraction of murderers.
A likehood of you being murdered by fellow woman is almost zero. Being murdered by a men? It's therr. Beinv murdered by a man you know? Yup.
So yes, it is a gender issue.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:05

M340 · 26/08/2024 21:01

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine

An OP: my husband has tricky working hours, I'm really upset that we can't go on holiday.
Replies: LTB! You deserve better, what a wanker!

There is absolutely zero critical thinking in that whatsoever. No matter how much you try and convince yourself that there is, or that you're above anyone who opposes.

You can’t just make stuff up and that’s your argument.

I think someone mentioned a straw man…

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

M340 · 26/08/2024 21:01

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine

An OP: my husband has tricky working hours, I'm really upset that we can't go on holiday.
Replies: LTB! You deserve better, what a wanker!

There is absolutely zero critical thinking in that whatsoever. No matter how much you try and convince yourself that there is, or that you're above anyone who opposes.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 21:01

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 13:02

Oh no! What another original reply, did you think of that all by yourself?

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Yeah, you love the people who disagree. This was you on page one.

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 20:59

ImSoExited · 26/08/2024 20:55

Well I think you're remarkable op.

For a woman who has been subjected to domestic violence to be strong enough to put a post out pointing out the suffering of men, by opposing apparently bitter and twisted MN female posters is commendable, if not unbelievable.

Thank you (I think)

There are good men in my life. Enough for me to know that not all men are horrible.

OP posts:

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 20:58

Missamyp · 26/08/2024 20:55

Your post is a classic example of a straw man fallacy.
The thread discusses whether Mumsent has a significant number of posters who are anti-men. The consensus is that it does.

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Where is this consensus then?

You see ‘anti-men’ where those of us with actual critical thinking skills see women holding men to account.

Original poster

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 20:55

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 20:29

I have no idea what you want from this thread, OP. You’re being very prickly with a lot of people - and over what? Concern that men are being maligned? Trust me, they’re fine.

The bit about mums of boys seems very confused and something of a red herring. Most of us know fantastic men/boys whether they’re our sons, husbands, brothers, fathers, whatever. That doesn’t stop the class of men being hugely problematic.

These ‘poor men’ threads blow my mind. It’s as if OPs have no concept of the power men have always had and still have over women. Just take a cursory glance back over the absolute shit-show that has been male-female dynamics over the millennia and then tell me that men are suffering from a few women holding them to account on MN. Men (as a class) are fine. (You should know…)

Oh no you're a bit misunderstood. I'm not prickly with people that disagree. That's fine and I wanted to hear both sides hence I posted! I'm prickly with people who are twisting my words and who are nasty / insulting to me first. I'm going to defend myself, especially when people are lying and saying I said offensive comments when I didn't. I'm glad this thread has both sides. That's the point of the thread :)

OP posts:

ImSoExited · 26/08/2024 20:55

Well I think you're remarkable op.

For a woman who has been subjected to domestic violence to be strong enough to put a post out pointing out the suffering of men, by opposing apparently bitter and twisted MN female posters is commendable, if not unbelievable.

Missamyp · 26/08/2024 20:55

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 20:29

I have no idea what you want from this thread, OP. You’re being very prickly with a lot of people - and over what? Concern that men are being maligned? Trust me, they’re fine.

The bit about mums of boys seems very confused and something of a red herring. Most of us know fantastic men/boys whether they’re our sons, husbands, brothers, fathers, whatever. That doesn’t stop the class of men being hugely problematic.

These ‘poor men’ threads blow my mind. It’s as if OPs have no concept of the power men have always had and still have over women. Just take a cursory glance back over the absolute shit-show that has been male-female dynamics over the millennia and then tell me that men are suffering from a few women holding them to account on MN. Men (as a class) are fine. (You should know…)

Your post is a classic example of a straw man fallacy.
The thread discusses whether Mumsent has a significant number of posters who are anti-men. The consensus is that it does.

SquirrelMadness · 26/08/2024 20:39

LuminousCrystalFox · 26/08/2024 19:50

Also the throwaway comment about false accusations ruining men’s careers…how many women are doing that? It reminds me of things I’ve read from men online saying things like, ‘If I smile at a women I’ll go to prison for harassment’, or this gem…‘I’m afraid to be alone with a woman because she’ll accuse me of rape’.

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Also see the long rant at me just up thread, which I'm not going to quote as I think I've fed it enough. I hope the thread gets deleted, it's just deliberately baiting people.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 20:35

5128gap · 26/08/2024 20:21

What happens is they learn their power. The ones with inate positive character traits such as high empathy, low selfishness and strength of will use it lightly and wisely, and even try to share it. The ones with poorer characters, the weak, the suggestible grab it with both hands, because it makes their lives easier and it gives them what they want.

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Spot on. It is about power. We all know power corrupts. In some ways, men have to work quite hard to step outside that and not abuse that power. Easier to just go with it, accept praise for basic things like taking care of your children etc.

Plenty of men do manage it though. Hence, you know, the fact we actually did get the vote. Couldn’t have done it without the good men. We have to keep holding men to account though as it’s easy for them to let it slide.

Clafoutie · 26/08/2024 20:34

Daniagainagainagainagain · 26/08/2024 12:36

Apologies for the grabby title. I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Anyway back to the point.
I see SO many threads on here where the topic about the thread is about a guy. It's not even necessarily bad about the bloke in question, but so many many posters just seem to hate men. Not give them the benefit of the doubt. Tear them a new arsehole for merely posting on MN asking for advice. There was a thread recently about a woman seeing a really nice guy, a gentlemen as she described him where he had been separated for literally YEARS but wasn't divorced. Turns out there were cultural differences meaning divorce in that country is very rare. People kept saying 'throw him back in the sea' 'he's a liar' one poster called him a wanker.. there was no evidence that he was a wanker and the OP seemed happy with the guy. Just more people clutching for their moment to berate men. It's always the guys fault on here no matter what.

It's always the same posters more often than not berating men, shooting them down, and just hating them. I wonder, do these women posters have sons? If so, do you think your sons are exempt from such awful insults because 'my boy would never'? I can't imagine these posters talking about their sons like that. So do you pick and choose, is it one rule for your sons and one for all other men?

Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement. I am not naive to think some of these guys deserve what they get.

AIBU? To think there's huge double standards? To call strangers with no reason to, wankers, but to also think the son shines out of your son's arses?

I know I'll probably ruffle some feathers but I'd genuinely like to know. And yes I have DC.

I agree OP.
There was a thread earlier where the OP clearly wanted to vent - justifiably- about her DP having messed up a work schedule which meant they couldn’t go on holiday as planned. Cue endless posts berating her DP as a shit, leave the bastard, etc. When the OP started to suggest he was actually quite nice and she didn’t want to leave him, some posters criticised her!

SquirrelMadness · 26/08/2024 20:33

M340 · 26/08/2024 20:11

@SquirrelMadness but a woman can and does have a responsibility to walk away or not to pursue a relationship. That's common sense no? That's not saying she is to blame for a man's terrible life choices or behaviour. But there are plenty of threads on MN where the woman has met a no good boyfriend, had a baby, and then wonders why he won't change. She was partly responsible for that situation she is in. She could choose better.

There are many reasons why people end up in bad relationships. Low self esteem, not understanding what a healthy relationship looks like due to upbringing, life experience, no support network, etc.

Some partners can be extremely manipulative. They might do an extremely good job of pretending to be attentive, loving etc. Then when the victim is trapped by children, marriage or just love and emotion, the bad behaviour can start.

Blaming people who are in bad relationships doesn't help, as it just damages their self esteem even further. Sometimes we need to re-learn, or learn for the first time, what a good relationship looks like.

I do think it would help to teach this in schools - what a good relationship looks like and how to set healthy boundaries etc. I think it's a social problem rather than some people being bad at choosing.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 26/08/2024 20:29

I have no idea what you want from this thread, OP. You’re being very prickly with a lot of people - and over what? Concern that men are being maligned? Trust me, they’re fine.

The bit about mums of boys seems very confused and something of a red herring. Most of us know fantastic men/boys whether they’re our sons, husbands, brothers, fathers, whatever. That doesn’t stop the class of men being hugely problematic.

These ‘poor men’ threads blow my mind. It’s as if OPs have no concept of the power men have always had and still have over women. Just take a cursory glance back over the absolute shit-show that has been male-female dynamics over the millennia and then tell me that men are suffering from a few women holding them to account on MN. Men (as a class) are fine. (You should know…)

MrsBosomworth · 26/08/2024 20:29

Hectorscalling · 26/08/2024 16:44

The only agenda was yours. Making out that parenting is only down to mothers.

This started because of a comment blaming women for the way they raise sons. It was pointed out that children have 2 parents. How could it only be ones fault?

Then you claimed that usually the men are out working. It’s since been pointed out that working doesn’t mean you don’t parent. And that many mothers work. So still both mother and father would be responsible for the child’s upbringing.

You claimed that men working meant they weren’t bringing the children up and that you daughter was a sahm. Again, it was pointed out that even if only the man works both are raising the kids. But you say he does parent when he isn’t at work. As he should. The only person claiming men aren’t responsible for parenting was you. That was your agenda.

So back to the point. If parenting is the issue when it comes to men who behave poorly, it’s not just down to the mother. It’s down to both parents. Glad we agree.

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Where have I said that parenting is only down to mothers?
Where have I said that working doesn’t mean you don’t parent?
Jesus wept.

MrsBosomworth · 26/08/2024 20:25

MrTiddlesTheCat · 26/08/2024 16:24

My agenda? You're the one who was blaming women for the bad behaviour of men and absolving dads of any responsibility for how their sons turn out.

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Where have I blamed women for the bad behaviour of men and absolving dads of any responsibility for how their sons turn out?