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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

561 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:00

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

OP posts:
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Alexis7890 · 25/08/2024 18:51

Yep! There’s a reason no other country in the developed world has it, it doesn’t work. France, Germany, Australia, Canada and so many other countries all have systems way better than ours that would absolutely be doable. There are a lot of stages between the nhs and USA models but everyone always goes straight to the USA as if it is the only option. No politician will ever be brave enough to do it though so we’ll be stuck forever

JenniferBooth · 25/08/2024 18:50

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 25/08/2024 18:43

Amen

European insurance model with free healthcare for the poorest

Then we will have people moaning about free healthcare like they do "free" housing and posts and news items like "my neighbour is committing free healthcare fraud.

northernerinthesouth2000 · 25/08/2024 18:50

DadJoke · 25/08/2024 18:46

How about this funding model - wealthy people pay more taxes.

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Agree fund this model properly for a start.. I wouldn't trust any government to change the current model as I would be worried that they would attempt to make money out of any changes - and heath care would be become about profit over care and that is not a society I want to live in thanks!

You can see what happens when they attempt to change the model - look at dentistry for example, what a mess that is in!

DadJoke · 25/08/2024 18:46

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:23

A lot more than is currently collected. Which is why there needs to be a different funding model.

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How about this funding model - wealthy people pay more taxes.

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 25/08/2024 18:43

Amen

European insurance model with free healthcare for the poorest

Alconleigh · 25/08/2024 18:43

I agree. We need a mixed funding model like in many European countries. Some finding from direct taxation and some from insurance payments; but state run ones not for profit, not the American model. The NHS is actively killing people at this point due to delays in care etc and yet people won't hear of an alternative. It's baffling. Do they just not know how poor it is compared to most of Europe?

InfradeadToUltraviolent · 25/08/2024 18:42

The NHS could do with a rethink, starting with the social care whose failings wind up burdening hospitals. This will inevitably involve us as a country paying a lot more.

But when it comes to high ticket price drugs, the NHS's massive consolidated bargaining power gives it a huge advantage over less centralised systems.

MrsTerryPratchett · 25/08/2024 18:42

You would think that, wouldn't you OP?

DadJoke · 25/08/2024 18:40

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:15

Ideally less than the tens of thousands I pay in tax plus the extra thousands I pay annually for private care?

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Now we are getting there - you resent paying taxes for the NHS when you have private health insurance.

The NHS, for its size, is one of the most under managed organisations there is. It had huge satisfaction levels until the Tories gutted it. It needs proper funding to return to its glory days and if that means more tax for you and me, so be it.

There is nothing more unedifying than wealthy people whining about tax.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/08/2024 18:39

BrainNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 25/08/2024 18:01

And what model do you propose instead?

Where only those wealthy enough and who don't already have a pre-existing condition can get and afford insurance to fund the fancy drugs.

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 25/08/2024 18:37

The NHS is one of the worst systems in the developed world and it is responsible for the UK's really poor productivity.

Based on what statistics?

JenniferBooth · 25/08/2024 18:35

user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 18:27

Social care needs to be seen in the same way as childcare - the financial responsibility of the individual receiving it or if preferred their family if they wish to retain the family 'wealth'.

It is not healthcare. It is a predictable part of ageing that needs to be planned for in the same way that people should plan for children.

Of course, not everyone will so there needs to be a safety net - but that should be basic.

Funny how its all "it takes a village" when it comes to kids.

user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 18:31

Because you don't live in France/Netherlands or pay the tax that they pay there.

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:30

RedHelenB · 25/08/2024 18:27

Yabu.

It costs me thousands to keep a normal level of health... Why do I have to live like this when my equivalent in France, Germany, the Netherlands wouldn't?

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 18:27

Social care needs to be seen in the same way as childcare - the financial responsibility of the individual receiving it or if preferred their family if they wish to retain the family 'wealth'.

It is not healthcare. It is a predictable part of ageing that needs to be planned for in the same way that people should plan for children.

Of course, not everyone will so there needs to be a safety net - but that should be basic.

RedHelenB · 25/08/2024 18:27

Yabu.

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:23

user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 18:22

Well Lecanemab is estimated to cost round £50,000 for the drug, the delivery (IV infusion) and the constant need for monitoring via expensive scans to check for bleeding /other side effects, plus administration costs.

That's per person, per year.

So how many people's tax is needed to pay for one individual's care?

A lot more than is currently collected. Which is why there needs to be a different funding model.

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 18:22

Well Lecanemab is estimated to cost round £50,000 for the drug, the delivery (IV infusion) and the constant need for monitoring via expensive scans to check for bleeding /other side effects, plus administration costs.

That's per person, per year.

So how many people's tax is needed to pay for one individual's care?

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:21

JenniferBooth · 25/08/2024 18:18

And the patient blaming starts in 3 2 1..............................

A lot of healthcare is required because patients make bad lifestyle choices. In the UK more than many places but it is still a human foible. I don't think it's about blame it's about maximising availability of care.

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JenniferBooth · 25/08/2024 18:18

And the patient blaming starts in 3 2 1..............................

speakingofart · 25/08/2024 18:17

Agree completely. All the useless shouting about PROTECT DA NHS ANGLES in the pandemic finished off any hope of a sensible conversation. Why do I have to
pay for the NHS through tax and then for private medical insurance as well to make sure I can see a doctor?

loudbatperson · 25/08/2024 18:16

Does the NHS need fixing? Yes. Should it be abolished? No.

To fix the NHS there needs to be a full overhaul of the associated services, such as social care. U till that happens the NHS isn't going to be turned around. However we need to keep a free at the point of use health service, or at least free at the point of use for those unable to pay.

And I say this as someone who benefits from good private healthcare coverage, that is lucky enough to rarely have to touch the NHS, except for emergency care.

No one should go without healthcare due to a lack of funds, and I am happy to pay taxes for the NHS.

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:16

MasterOfOne · 25/08/2024 18:04

What a ridiculous, simplistic and reductive argument you have made.
I can comment because I am on the receiving end of NICE not approving a drug that would benefit me and thousands like me across England.

The NHS is an imperfect system that definitely requires investment and improvement.

Who do you think can fund this particular drug... and all those before and after?

Surely the argument is proper funding for the NHS and also looking at how pharmaceutical companies price their drugs?

The NHS is one of the worst systems in the developed world and it is responsible for the UK's really poor productivity.

OP posts:
Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:15

SnakesAndArrows · 25/08/2024 18:03

How much are you prepared to pay?

Ideally less than the tens of thousands I pay in tax plus the extra thousands I pay annually for private care?

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EarthlyNightshade · 25/08/2024 18:15

America is not the only system.
I am very envious of some of my European friends who can access doctors when they want to see them, and not told to call back the next day and there might be an appointment in 6 weeks if you stay on hold for an hour.