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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

561 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:00

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

OP posts:
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newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:24

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:19

Can you share with NHS health authority doesn’t prescribe ADHD medication or herpes treatment?

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Some ICBs don't fund particular treatments despite NICE approval. An example is rheumatology biological and biological used to treat age-related macular degeneration not funded by South West London ICB.

TigerRag · 25/08/2024 19:23

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Utter bullshit

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:22

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:21

So it’s okay for taxes to house, feed and care for you, just not others, I see.

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Hahaha very good.

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pointythings · 25/08/2024 19:22

I'm from the Netherlands originally and their insurance based model is not bad - but it is also not that good. Be very careful when you wish the NHS away.

Also Lecanemab is a very bad hill to die on - it isn't a good drug and has been refused approval in many places. There's a lot more work to be done to develop a safe and effective treatment for dementia.

newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:22

LostGardens · 25/08/2024 19:16

Why are those systems better? Is there a reason beyond the fact that people pay in more via often very high monthly insurance costs, and the government too puts in more funding than ours?

Basically I am asking if it’s actually the model that’s better, or if it’s the fact there is more money in the system.

If the model itself actually leads to better care, regardless of funding, id like to understand why.

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There is also personal responsibility. Between 11-20% hospital appointments are not attended with no notice. People don't attend or cancel as it doesnt cost them anything.
The DNA rate in private clinics are almost 0%
There is a lackadaisical attitude to use of healthcare by the public and by some staff in the NHS. That culture needs to change

InevitableNameChanger · 25/08/2024 19:22

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I "sit around like a slug" (revolting description) due to being disabled by a genetic condition

I am also a higher rate tax payer, am an expert in a highly valued field and volunteer for a charity.

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:21

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Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:21

DadJoke · 25/08/2024 18:46

How about this funding model - wealthy people pay more taxes.

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Tell me you’ve never heard of the Laffer Curve without telling me you’ve never heard of the Laffer Curve.

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:21

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:20

Completely unbearable. I think if this happens to my husband I'll die in prison.

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So it’s okay for taxes to house, feed and care for you, just not others, I see.

user1471538275 · 25/08/2024 19:21

@QueenOfTheSouth123

I like the idea of using Inheritance tax for social care but your post indicates part of the problem

Your dad's care was £200,000,

You're suggesting a percentage of estate that comes to £15,000

It doesn't add up

Plus what happens to families who provide care to the families themselves - that should benefit them, not cost them twice

I don't see why people shouldn't pay it from their savings or homes either - those are their assets. Their assets should be used for their needs.

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:20

Hendoparty · 25/08/2024 18:58

I’m terms of new medication not being available my brother died because of this reason. It was sat in the shelves and 2 weeks after he died it was released for NHS patient, complete rage and heartbreak

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Completely unbearable. I think if this happens to my husband I'll die in prison.

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WickerwomanIamnot · 25/08/2024 19:20

Social care needs to be seen in the same way as childcare - the financial responsibility of the individual receiving it or if preferred their family if they wish to retain the family 'wealth'.

It is not healthcare. It is a predictable part of ageing that needs to be planned for in the same way that people should plan for children.

it's not just an age thing. Many people with various disabilities need social care from a young age

FuzzyPuffling · 25/08/2024 19:20

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:19

Why is it nasty to be furious about suffering so other people can live lives of leisure?

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Because you called them.slugs and said you hated them.

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:19

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:18

Nice approves all sorts of things the NHS refuses.

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Can you share with NHS health authority doesn’t prescribe ADHD medication or herpes treatment?

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:19

FuzzyPuffling · 25/08/2024 19:18

Such vitriol.
This is a really unpleasant, unfair and downright nasty opinion

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Why is it nasty to be furious about suffering so other people can live lives of leisure?

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InevitableNameChanger · 25/08/2024 19:19

Hendoparty · 25/08/2024 18:58

I’m terms of new medication not being available my brother died because of this reason. It was sat in the shelves and 2 weeks after he died it was released for NHS patient, complete rage and heartbreak

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I'm heart broken for you brother but this happens in every healthcare system

And on the US people then have to battle their insurers too

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:18

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:13

Why do you think another model wouldn’t have the same issue? Do you think some models contain every type of drug, treatment and are at an affordablw tax and co-pay rate for all residents?

Why are you paying for ADHD medication, mine was free when I lived in the UK. Again NICE approves herpes medication for longterm use rather than just during outbreaks.

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Nice approves all sorts of things the NHS refuses.

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TheLittleOldWomanWhoShrinks · 25/08/2024 19:18

LostGardens · 25/08/2024 19:10

Can someone please explain to me the mechanism by which adding insurance companies into the mix leads to better care?

Surely it is just another layer of admin to suck up money that could be spent on care? Even if the insurance companies are state-run?

Genuine question as I always feel I am missing something here. I am inclined to think e.g. the german system is simply better because more money is put into it - but do the insurance companies have any role in that?

I don't think the insurers improve care as such, beyond the mechanisms by which statutory insurers compete for members by covering stuff that isn't required to be covered in the corresponding legislation (e.g. some travel vaccinations, or (say) orthotics for three pairs of shoes a year instead of two). They're simply the admin mechanism really. But the statutory ones work to strict laws and criteria. I suppose in theory you could have one massive national statutory insurer and things wouldn't change much. But (where I am anyway) this is the way it's organically grown, since the late 19th c.

FuzzyPuffling · 25/08/2024 19:18

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Such vitriol.
This is a really unpleasant, unfair and downright nasty opinion

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:17

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Whats preventing you getting a free cholesterol check? It can be done at both the GP surgery and many pharmacies.

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:17

And the point @Nsky62 is that I don't really have the money. Obviously I don't have the money to pay for my parents. If I were that wealthy I'd buy a passport to live elsewhere.

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Alexis7890 · 25/08/2024 19:17

Bushmillsbabe · 25/08/2024 19:05

Working for the nhs I fully agree that it doesn't work. The principle is amazing and honourable, but the reality is that it is incredibly inefficient, with lots of wastage, bottlenecks - it's like a load of jigsaw pieces that don't quite fit together, there are overlaps and gaps, and it's too huge to figure it out, like a rubix cube, you fix one bit and mess up another. Lots of incompetent staff which nhs hrs processes make it almost impossible to get rid of.
And then there are patient attitudes, the missed appointments, abuse of nhs equipment, rudeness and aggression towards us. There seems to be this attitude that because it doesn't cost the patient anything. I advised a patient that a specific treatment was not suitable for their child, their response was 'well I want it, other children have got it so I am entitled to it, it's not as if you are paying for it so why are you being so awkward'. This sums it all up, a level of entitlement, lack of respect for our professional opinions and thinking that it's free, when it not, someone has to pay.

Absolutely! Anything perceived as free will get abused. It’s not free but so much messaging has been that it is and that it’s there to serve the public which breeds entitlement and attitude problems. I’ve spent a lot of time in waiting rooms for nhs treatment and the amount of people who show up ridiculously late and don’t even say sorry I’m late just expect to be seen was astonishing and showed how little they cared about the system

LostGardens · 25/08/2024 19:16

Vizella · 25/08/2024 19:12

We need a system similar to France or Germany.

Why are those systems better? Is there a reason beyond the fact that people pay in more via often very high monthly insurance costs, and the government too puts in more funding than ours?

Basically I am asking if it’s actually the model that’s better, or if it’s the fact there is more money in the system.

If the model itself actually leads to better care, regardless of funding, id like to understand why.

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:16

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blacksax · 25/08/2024 19:16

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:23

A lot more than is currently collected. Which is why there needs to be a different funding model.

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What funding model do you propose?

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