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Original poster

To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

561 replies

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 18:00

Free at the point of use also means denial of care to a lot of people. What torture to know that new medications are arriving regularly (eg lecanemab) but it's only for the very wealthy.

The UK is different from how it was in 1948. We should be brave enough to move on from then.

OP posts:
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LostGardens · 25/08/2024 19:36

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TheLittleOldWomanWhoShrinks · 25/08/2024 19:36

pointythings · 25/08/2024 19:22

I'm from the Netherlands originally and their insurance based model is not bad - but it is also not that good. Be very careful when you wish the NHS away.

Also Lecanemab is a very bad hill to die on - it isn't a good drug and has been refused approval in many places. There's a lot more work to be done to develop a safe and effective treatment for dementia.

This (second para) - approval has been refused in my country too.

GreatReader · 25/08/2024 19:35

@OptimismvsRealism what are your views on NHS funding for transgender support, medications and surgery?

sadabouti · 25/08/2024 19:35

Can't help but feel this was the Tory plan. Run the NHS into the ground, keep whispering about how much better it would be if private. Hope to persuade enough people who cannot remember when it worked quite well (2010).

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:34

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:30

Our daughter has cerebal palsy, are you suggesting she should have taken out insurance before she was born?

My husband has arthrogryposis, are you suggesting he should have taken out insurance at 20 weeks gestation before his condition was diagnosed?

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As I’ve said, if everybody who had a choice about needing healthcare made the right choice (CII, maintaining healthy lifestyle etc) then the right support would be there for you.

taxguru · 25/08/2024 19:34

Guavafish1 · 25/08/2024 18:09

Not really! It needs to be more efficient with better managers and targets!

insurance based is a complete scam… you just have to look at Americas health care system. People died because they can’t afford cancer treatments or in debt due to medical bills.

If you don’t like the NHS … you don’t have to use it… you can go private with a private GP, private hospital and private treatments.

Edited

Why do people always make out that the US system is the only alternative??

Lots of European countries have insurance based systems (as does Australia) that work a lot better than the antiquated NHS.

Don't you think it's strange that no other country has copied the UK's NHS model?

newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:33

Putting · 25/08/2024 19:31

Not everyone is able to obtain critical illness insurance.

I have some through work, which is not the cheapest or best but it doesn’t require medical underwriting. I don’t think I’d get accepted otherwise, or at least not at a price I could afford / without significant exclusions.

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Also - many people don't feel they need to because the NHS will look after them. That was/is the promise. From cradle to grave.

It is important to either recommit to this and fund it appropriately or redefine what it will cover and fund that. And a social insurance covers everything else

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:32

Putting · 25/08/2024 19:31

Not everyone is able to obtain critical illness insurance.

I have some through work, which is not the cheapest or best but it doesn’t require medical underwriting. I don’t think I’d get accepted otherwise, or at least not at a price I could afford / without significant exclusions.

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As a type one diabetic it isn’t something I can purchase at all, even with anything diabetes related excluded, silly me not taking it out as a seven year old.

Putting · 25/08/2024 19:31

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:28

These people had the choice to pay for critical illness insurance, but chose not too.

Of course I have a lot of empathy with anybody who is struggling with their health, but the difficult financial circumstances that come with serious illness could have been avoided with better planning.

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Not everyone is able to obtain critical illness insurance.

I have some through work, which is not the cheapest or best but it doesn’t require medical underwriting. I don’t think I’d get accepted otherwise, or at least not at a price I could afford / without significant exclusions.

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:30

TigerRag · 25/08/2024 19:29

And those of us who were born disabled?

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Would have a far better heath service if everybody who could have taken steps to avoid needing the NHS had done so.

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:30

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:28

These people had the choice to pay for critical illness insurance, but chose not too.

Of course I have a lot of empathy with anybody who is struggling with their health, but the difficult financial circumstances that come with serious illness could have been avoided with better planning.

Show quote history

Our daughter has cerebal palsy, are you suggesting she should have taken out insurance before she was born?

My husband has arthrogryposis, are you suggesting he should have taken out insurance at 20 weeks gestation before his condition was diagnosed?

TigerRag · 25/08/2024 19:29

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:28

These people had the choice to pay for critical illness insurance, but chose not too.

Of course I have a lot of empathy with anybody who is struggling with their health, but the difficult financial circumstances that come with serious illness could have been avoided with better planning.

Show quote history

And those of us who were born disabled?

Startingagainandagain · 25/08/2024 19:29

No.

Everything that the private sector has touched has turned to shit: utilities, transport...so if that is what you suggest then absolutely not.

'The NHS is one of the worst systems in the developed world and it is responsible for the UK's really poor productivity.'

Again no. You only have to look at the American system to realise how lucky we are not to have a health system based on people's ability to pay and mercenary private insurances who often refuse to fund essential drugs and surgeries...

The NHS is not perfect and it needs to become more efficient but that is the government job.

My GP literally saved my life last year.

Davros · 25/08/2024 19:28

I have used the NHS extensively for many years for many different things - autoimmune disease, cancer twice, lymphoma, , Bariatric, arthritis and more. DH used it extensively before he died, mostly Parkinson's and psychosis/mental health problems, I've used it for DS who has severe ASD and LD - so also much use of social services, care system. My sister and her husband have used it extensively over the years for many things as have other family members. Not all the same area or same hospitals but SE. It has been outstanding

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:28

bringincrazyback · 25/08/2024 19:25

And do you count the chronically ill/disabled among those who you perceive as 'sitting around like slugs'?

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These people had the choice to pay for critical illness insurance, but chose not too.

Of course I have a lot of empathy with anybody who is struggling with their health, but the difficult financial circumstances that come with serious illness could have been avoided with better planning.

newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:28

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:25

Yes, neither of those are ADHD medication of herpes treatments.

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Indeed - I gave the example because it is typically how ICBs work. They do not always fund NICE approved treatments even ones that are life-enhancing

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:28

OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:27

A lot of health boards won't. Herpes suppression is not provided by the NHS where I live. They don't approve of it. If I want to have sex with my kidney diseased husband without putting him at added risk I have to pay £200 every 84 days. And no I cannot afford it I just don't have any alternative

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Can you name these health boards that do not offer ADHD medication?

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:28

bringincrazyback · 25/08/2024 19:25

And do you count the chronically ill/disabled among those who you perceive as 'sitting around like slugs'?

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I am chronically I'll and so is my partner and so are my parents. None of us are being cared for adequately by the extortionate NHS.

OP posts:
newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:27

pointythings · 25/08/2024 19:22

I'm from the Netherlands originally and their insurance based model is not bad - but it is also not that good. Be very careful when you wish the NHS away.

Also Lecanemab is a very bad hill to die on - it isn't a good drug and has been refused approval in many places. There's a lot more work to be done to develop a safe and effective treatment for dementia.

I think the discussion should be on the principle of it. Lecanemab is first in class. The first treatments often have low efficacy but they are proof of concept that it can be done - in this case, the disease can be slowed. There are other treatments in phase 1 and 2 - that look pretty good. They will not be cheap and the cost to deliver will be significant

Now is the time to be having these discussions. And they are being had by the leadership of course but the public view point is important too

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:27

Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:25

Yes, neither of those are ADHD medication of herpes treatments.

Show quote history

A lot of health boards won't. Herpes suppression is not provided by the NHS where I live. They don't approve of it. If I want to have sex with my kidney diseased husband without putting him at added risk I have to pay £200 every 84 days. And no I cannot afford it I just don't have any alternative

OP posts:
Simonjt · 25/08/2024 19:25

newmummycwharf1 · 25/08/2024 19:24

Some ICBs don't fund particular treatments despite NICE approval. An example is rheumatology biological and biological used to treat age-related macular degeneration not funded by South West London ICB.

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Yes, neither of those are ADHD medication of herpes treatments.

bringincrazyback · 25/08/2024 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And do you count the chronically ill/disabled among those who you perceive as 'sitting around like slugs'?

Original poster
OptimismvsRealism · 25/08/2024 19:25

TigerRag · 25/08/2024 19:23

Utter bullshit

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Specifically how? There is no social contract any more. The NHS is no use to me. Why do I pay for it?

OP posts:
Toastandbutterand · 25/08/2024 19:25

If you can afford private health care you can afford to pay extra taxes to fund social healthcare.

The NHS is one of the cheapest healthcare models in the world.

Overpayment · 25/08/2024 19:25

If we made the NHS a paid for service for people who smoke, or who are obese, this would help a lot.

Im aware of all the whataboutery arguments (skiers etc) but the reality is that the above two are the biggest factors in the spiralling cost of the NHS. It would be a good place to start.

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